Bob W. Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Could anyone clarify the law on owning and/or purchasing antique firearmes - specifically pre-WW2 shotguns (not black powder)?As I understand the French categories:1st and 4th categories = pistols, permit required through TIR club membership5th category = hunting rifles and shotguns, hunting license required.7th category = airguns, no permit8th category = black powder, not sure what permit appliesDo antiques fall into the respective category? I ask because I used to restore/repair old/broken shotguns which usually entails buying selling through a dealer.CheersBob W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enserp Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Hi Bob. The law is quite complicated on this subject, at least as complicated as back in England. In a nutshell:1st category is for weapons designed to be used in war or capable of shooting a war-designed cartridge. This would include for example a 7.62 mm target rifle or even a .303 Lee Enfield. This also means .45 and 9mms. You need to have prefectoral authority to buy one of these. That includes the cartridges and even the empties! This doesn't include old black powder large bullet types such as the Martini-Henry in 577/450, they have been relegated to 5th category. See below.4th category. Weapons of defense. That is, small calibre handguns (I think it's .32 or less) and also includes .22 semi automatic rifles with more than 3 shots in the magazine. Again you need prefectoral authority before having one of these.5th Category. This splits into two. Smoothbore rifles (eg 12 bore shotguns) with one shot per barrel are 5th category but not subject to declaration. You either have to have a hunting permit or a tir sportif permit (for example a balltrap licence) to buy one, but you don't have to tell the gendarmerie you've bought it afterwards. If you buy a proper "rifle" then you have to let the gendarmerie know by doing a declaration at the prefecture. They'll let the gendarmerie know and the gendarmes will arrive at your house with some paperwork for you to sign. This may well scare the life out of your wife as it did to mine! This includes semi automatic shotguns.7th category. Airguns over a specific power (this is so low as to include everything except airsoft guns), plus .22 rifles, 9mm rimfire shotguns and the like. The law has recently changed on this, and whereas you used to be able to purchase one without a permit, you can't now. You may be able to get away with buying one if you have had a certificate to your physical and mental health signed by your doctor, but it's much less hassle to just get the permit and have done. You have to declare these at the prefecture in the same way as 5th category arms (Not sure if the doctor's note or the declaration applies to airguns). 8th category is for antiques and modern reproductions IF they are manufactured exactly the same as the originals. Antiques are for weapons produced before a certain date (I think it's 1892) BUT they must be of a design previous to 1870 (with the exception of very few cases). So for example, in England a 1871 black powder cartridge Mauser would be classed as an antique, but it France it isn't and is classed in the 5th category. There are a couple of useful exceptions such as the 1873 French Ordinance Revolver in 11 mm calibre is classed as antique, as is the 11 mm Gras rifle SO LONG AS THEY HAVEN'T BEEN MODIFIED IN ANY WAY.The law above is as I understand it currently, but appears to be in a constant state of flux, which I anticipate will become more difficult for all target shooters and hunters with the new President. This is only a guideline too, and before you act or make any purchases then it is up to you to varify the accuracy of the above with either the Gendarmerie or your prefecture. BTW, I am registered in England as a section 1, 3 and 7 firearms permit holder, plus I have a French licence for target shooting and clay pigeon shooting. For a good French website with antiques and old guns for sale try visiting www.lehussard.fr as all his items for sale tell you which category they belong to (oh, and that's the law in France too, if you're selling then you have to declare which category the arm belongs to).So to answer your original query about shotguns. If you've got a permit you should be ok to possess. If you want to sell one then your prospective purchaser will have to have a permit too (and I'd also advise you to keep records of any transations). If you haven't got a permit then I wouldn't advise doing anything until you've got one. Hope this helps. RegsPhil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob W. Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 Hi Phil,Thankyou very much for all the information and advice, that has certainly made the picture a bit clearer and in English!I have joined the local Club de Tir, paid my fees to the club and the FFTIR, and supplied a doctors certificate that states I am in sound physical and mental health. I will probably buy a .22rf target rifle when I get my (I presume) category 5 Tir Sportif license in a couple of months. From what you say this may also be the new "heavier" cat7 - I will have to check.Regarding shotguns I am more interested in antiques of interest than actually shooting them. If I understand you correctly I could now buy shotguns pre-1890 with an age declaration, and others buy showing my cat5 tir license?I recently bought an interesting and fully functional 1919 single barrel shotgun in 9mm Flobert from a retiring antique dealer without any permit (he said nothing was needed) - this is why I started to get very confused......I had a UK FAC for 9 years until 1996 when I gave it up along with a nice collection of pistols....things are certainly easier in France, but very confusing!I found the lehussard site - potentially very dangerous for an antique firearms enthusiast......Thanks again,Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enserp Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Hi BobGlad you found it useful. The changes in the law that have been made since the end of last year are fairly poorly documented. I have a couple of books on the law previous to that. If you're a member of one of the online book clubs such as Amazon try a search for "la reglementation des armes" buigne collet which will show you one of the excellent works that these chaps have done in the past. The most recent one I can find is number 7 (yellow cover) BUT a lot of the information contained has been superseded. It is despite that an excellent work and a lot of it is still current. Even the stuff that has been outdated is represented in a way that clarifies a lot of your queries. Heartily recommended reading. Oh, but it's entirely in French (of course) so have a dictionary to hand for some of the lesser known words and expressions.Kind RegardsPhil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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