leisl000 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I read an old post here about various problems with neighbours and boundary disputes in France.We have just received a letter from a Geometre regarding boundaries with a new farmer neighbour who is busy creating disputes with all of his neighbours (including ploughing up our other neighbours land and fencing it).We have an old fenced boundary which has been there for probably over 50 years and he claims that it is not straight, as it is on the plan cadastre. We know that the cadastre was drawn up firstly in order to levy taxes but also that the draughtsmen used rulers which make straight lines. It is essential that we maintain this fence as we have horses on the land. Furthermore the boundary is on a steep bank and consists of mainly rock and stone. I really do not know what is motivating this person. If it were simply a matter of a few metres of land I could not be bothered with the hassle but we cannot afford to replace this fence and actually do not know how we would do it anyway given the terrain.Does anyone have experience of this sort of problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardian Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Leis1000 ................Good morning to you. The old post you refer to may be the one relating to the dispute that I am currently embroiled in. Whatever, I have some current and unhappy experience of this sort of thing.You say that you have received a letter from a geometre - presumably he/she is acting for the farmer neighbour? What precisely is this letter proposing? Presumably that the existing fence doesn't represent the boundary as shown on the plan cadastral? Is the existing fence owned by you, the farmer, or is it shared (mitoyennete)? My instinctive reaction is that you need to decide whether such an assertion is correct or not: you imply that it may well be, even though the fence has been in existence for decades. If that is the case and he is the fence owner, then your position could well be "Fine, but its for you M. Farmer to re-build the fence to an agreed line representing the cadastral in order to protect my interests."I suspect that it gets trickier if you are the fence owner or if its shared, i.e. you could easily get dumped with all or part of the cost of re-aligning the boundary fence.As you clearly realise, this is a minefield (!!) and it might be worth having a word with him and / or the Maire to see whether you can arrive at some amicable and cost-free solution. Whatever you do, avoid any involvement with geometres or lawyers: it would prove very costly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I don't think you have any obligation to have a fence, unless you have livestock, so you could just remove it if you wished.EDIT: I assumed you had implied it is your fence, if it is his, he is responsible for it, and for containing any of his livestock.Are there any bornes (boundary markers, often stone or concrete) at the corners of your property, or along the fence?The boundary should be along straight lines between these, unless it follows a natural feature such as a watercourse, or a road or other permanent structure, and could also be defined on the documents you received when you bought the property.The boundary should be defined by measurements from some fixed reference point(s), so if you cannot locate any bornes you may have to arrange a site meeting, possibly using your own géomètre, to justify the measurements and reference points, and agree on the physical location of the boundary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiseau Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hello and welcome, leis1000.I have not had any particular boundary wrangles, but have encountered geometres in the context of them being called in by neighbouring owners.I would say, first, make sure you are present on the day. The geometres seemed to be very fair, and were even ready to tweak a boundary on the spot if it seemed logical.On the first occasion, he gave us a tiny triangle of land outside the kitchen window, in exchange for us giving an equally postage-stamp sized bit to the next door farmer so he could get his tractor round a corner into his back yard.And he made a bit of a wiggle in another bit of fence so that some other neughbours could keep control of "their" plum tree that had leant progressively over their boundary with neighbours.On the other occasion, at a different house, while they were ferreting around in the bushes finding the concrete markers that we never even knew existed it became apparent that our septic tank had been installed by previous owners on the verge that was actually municipal property, not ours. No problem. He just redrew the map to show that that patch belonged to our house...But it's vital to be there, to see the markers that delimit your boundary, and to do any on the spot negotiations. And if your French is not up to contesting any claims made by your aggressive neighbour, make sure you have a fluent French-speaking friend who will stand up for you.Angela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Never ever underestimate what the average French person will do or go through for a seemingly inconsequential few centimetres of ostensibly worthless land ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charnizay Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Please be careful though, I am under the impression that the cost of the geometres are shared? They are not cheap!Good luck with your dispute, I have "been there" and I know it is unpleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Surely, the survey was carried out by a geometre either when you bought your place or when the farmer did, meaning that there should be bornage somewhere. Have you looked at your purchase paperwork to see if the record of the geometre carrying it out is there?If not, then the costs should be shared. If the farmer will not do this, then he is probably chancing his arm and bullying you as innocent foreigners.Bornage is not totally accurate, by the way.Have you had a chat with the farmer's other neighboiurs to see what he has tried on with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Unless specifically requested a survey is not a routine or required part of a house or property purchase and a geometre would only be called in if there was a dispute or if something needed officially determining, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 OTOH, Erns, there SHOULD be bornes somewhere but you might have to dig around to find them if they were put in years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiseau Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 It seems to me that if the farmer has called the geometre in, then the farmer is paying. We never had to pay anything when our new neighbour decided to call one in.If he hasn't got your agreement to share the cost, then your farmer must be bearing the cost himself.Angela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardian Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 We may well be wasting our time, providing input because theOP hasn't responded since Monday.Ah, well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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