Testament and settlement of estate

[Gluestick]

 

I need to access a copy of a French will and also

determine the final distribution of the estate.

 I know how to do this in the UK and deal with

occasional probate cases for clients.

 Is this possible, in France and if so, to which

government office ought I to apply

 Any assistance gratefully received.

Many thanks.

[EuroTrash]

I don't fully understand the question but succession is dealt with by a notaire, and an individual's will has relatively little scope for deciding who inherits what - the estate is distributed in accordance with the French succession/inheritance laws, and French succession tax applies.

[YCCMB]

I think you require the "Fichier des Testaments". From what it says here, this can be accessed by the public, or you can get a notaire to search it on your behalf.

[url]http://www.notaires.fr/notaires/fichier-des-testaments[/url]

[Gluestick]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]I don't fully understand the question but

succession is dealt with by a notaire, and an individual's will has

relatively little scope for deciding who inherits what - the estate is

distributed in accordance with the French succession/inheritance laws,

and French succession tax applies.[/quote]

I need to view the details of distribution and allocation of a French estate.

I am aware of the ramifications of French succession law and the specific determination of inheritance and the limited scope for bequests.

I therefore seek a French government department or whatever to attempt to obtain details of the settlement of the estate.

In the UK I would simply apply to the Probate Office, as all estates and indeed wills are a matter of public information. By naming the testator/testortrix and paying a modest fee I could obtain full details.

Is this similar in France, or are estates and their settlement and distribution secret and closed to any enquiry?

[YCCMB]

And the link I have provided tells you how to do that.

[Chancer]

Welcome back GS.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]And the link I have provided tells you how to do that.

[/quote]

Not being as tired this morning and a fresh mind, I see that yes it does.

Many thanks.

[powerdesal]

Welcome back from me too.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="powerdesal"]Welcome back from me too.[/quote]

Many thanks, PD.

[victor]

We are in the process of writing a new will, therefore while I was researching, I came across what appears to be a new law to be effective in July 2015. If I understand it correctly, it states that one may choose to have the provisions in their will apply using either their place of residence OR their country of nationality. The will would, however, be handled by French authorities.

Thus if one wanted to exclude a child, for example, and the country of their nationality allowed that, one could then have the law of that country apply if they died after the law became effective.

Has anyone else come across this change made by Brussels?

Victor

[Val_2]

I think the current situation is that the UK has not signed upto this proposal and that all french inheritance issues will still fall under french rules. I have not seen anything in the press about it nor heard anything recently but you could consult your french notaire to see if he/she has any info on the issue.

[Pickles]

[quote user="victor"]We are in the process of writing a new will, therefore while I was researching, I came across what appears to be a new law to be effective in July 2015. If I understand it correctly, it states that one may choose to have the provisions in their will apply using either their place of residence OR their country of nationality. The will would, however, be handled by French authorities.

Thus if one wanted to exclude a child, for example, and the country of their nationality allowed that, one could then have the law of that country apply if they died after the law became effective.

Has anyone else come across this change made by Brussels?

Victor[/quote]

The thing about this, is that although you may be able to have your country of nationality's inheritance laws take precedence, the TAX rules that will apply are those where the estate is located. So, for example, under UK inheritance law I may be able to determine that all of my estate be left to my best friend's children, but the French part of the estate would be taxed under French tax rules - hence as the recipients are not related to me the tax-free allowance would be very low, and the rate of taxation thereafter rather high. You may already be entirely aware of this, so please excuse me for teaching you to suck eggs, but many people in the past have confused inheritance law with inheritance tax.

[tinabee]

Victor - you are correct, you can have UK inheritance law apply to your French estate, so it will allow you to disinherit a child, which is not normally possible under French inheritance law. The French notaires I have dealt with in the past couple of years (3) were all aware of this impending change.

[victor]

Pickles,

We plan to make a will for both of us and give everything to French charities. I appreciate your information on the tax aspects as some people may not be aware of this. Fortunately that is an area that I do understand. We are American and must also make sure that the law would apply to non EU citizens.

We did go to a Notaire who did not mention this new law. Needless to say, we will be lookingfor another Notaire. Always the skeptic, I did some research and found the new law. However, until the French agree to abide by it, it is always possible that it will not apply here, thus we will word the will in such a way that if and when it does apply, we can then exclude whomever we please.

Also, one must die after the law is in effect.

[victor]

tinabee,

We have found a new Notaire and confirmed that indeed this law will apply to us if we wish. I was wrong on the effective date of the law: the date is August 2015. Now I need to figure out if we need to make an American will also as I want to void our prior American will.

Did the Notaires you spoke with mention the need to also have a will in your country of nationality?

[tinabee]

[quote user="victor"]tinabee, We have found a new Notaire and confirmed that indeed this law will apply to us if we wish. I was wrong on the effective date of the law: the date is August 2015. Now I need to figure out if we need to make an American will also as I want to void our prior American will. Did the Notaires you spoke with mention the need to also have a will in your country of nationality?[/quote]

I understand that having 2 wills in different countries can cause confusion. If it were me, I would ask the notaire to include a clause in the new will which revokes all previous wills in whatever jurisdiction. However, I am not at all familiar with US inheritance law, so please check this out carefully.

[victor]

According to our new notaire, the will must reference not only the country but the state. In the states inheritance laws may differ depending on the state. However, most states have adopted a Uniform Code for wills and trusts which allows one to determine how to distribute one's estate. I did the research today, and our last state of residence allows one to exclude anyone we wish.

Excellent point regarding having two wills in different countries and your suggestion of including a clause of revocation. We will see our notaire Monday, and this will definitely be an issue to discuss. Thanks!