Dual Nationality - Documentation required

[HoneySuckleDreams]

Hi all

 

I'm looking for info from people who have been through the process of gaining French Nationality w.r.t the documentation required.

 

Wife and 3 kids are looking at going through the process and we've read the blurb and it talks about "Original Copies" of things like Marriage certificates.  Each child needs to present a dossier of their own, so do we need to "buy" Original documentation from the UK Govt website, get each one translated and submit them.  Or can we just have one "original copy" and then get 4 translated copies.  We can't obviously send the actual "original" of everything as we would have to wait for it to be returned before the next dossier can be started.

 

It seems daft to shell out money for 4 copies of Birth/Marriage certificates and then get each one translated.

 

Much obliged

[idun]

When we moved to France we had to get all our documents officially translated, ie wedding certificate and our birth certificates, and they were expensive but served for the rest of our time in France, and if we moved back they would serve again.

We only needed 'one' marriage certificate for both of us, if that is what you mean?

So get them done once and then go and see whoever and get them to copy the officially translated copies. That is what I would do.

I don't know how old  your children are, but they really want to be french? My children were born in France and they had no choice but be english because we are, but I would never have done other than let them chose at the appropriate age ie 18. Although I am not sure what happens if the parent becomes french. I rather think that even then there is a choice.

Incidentally I never spoke about nationalty with my kids knowing that IF I ignored the appropriate time limits, effectively doing nothing then they would have been french d'office. But instead, made an appointment and they went and discussed their wishes with french officials, as far as I am concerned, that was something that was none of my business.

[lindal1000]

You don't stop being British by applying for French citizenship though. At the moment both countries accept the concept of dual nationality, so if kids decide later that they don't want to be French/British they are free to renounce one of them. I think the problem with not doing anything is that the rules are quite likely to change once brexit happens and then the children may end up having no choice.

[Cathar Tours]

It would pay you to go and talk to the regional office that will be dealing with you for clarification as it can change from one region to another.

The Montpellier office wants Grand parents and parents birth and marriage certificates as well as death certificates but none have to be translated. What they do require is that the copies be authenticated which is done in the UK but are only valid for a limited period. Bit like the DBS (formally CRB) check. It's like juggling plates on sticks to ensure all is available at the correct time and takes a lot of chasing in the UK.

Just as a matter of interest why are you interested in doing this. It won't give you any advantage when the UK leaves the EU.

[Lehaut]

We have been down this route a few years ago. Both of us and our two children have dual nationality. We got all the original/UK copies of the relevant certificates translated by a legally certified translator, 20€ a page. The scottish script on the parents marriage certificates was almost unreadable, but we "helped" the translator. We had one original copy, then used the copies of the certified translation for each dossier. We also needed "timbre fiscaux" for each dossier. If I remember correctly, for our region we did two dossiers, one for the father, one for the mother. In each dossier we had all the necessary copies of each set of documents for each child, as we thought the system required. In the end, the official took out and threw away all the children's documentation in my wife's dossier and brought the children under my dossier alone. As they were both under 18, they became French with us at the same time. We did it to level the playing field for them should they want to enter into public office, military etc here in France where they have spent nearly all their lives. Apart from getting National ID cards, don't think anything else really changed for us.

Althought the system kept all our Original UK documents, we wrote to Nantes after it was all over and got them all back.

[NormanH]

I started this process but was finally beaten by the requirement to have BORDEREAU DE SITUATION FISCALE P 237 (DATANT DE MOINS DE TROIS MOIS) CHIFFRANT

L’INTÉGRALITÉ DE VOS IMPOSITIONS (IMPÔT SUR LE REVENU + TAXE D’HABITATION + LE CAS

ÉCHÉANT TAXE FONCIÈRE) DES TROIS DERNIÈRES ANNÉES (ORIGINAL).

Since I applied too late to have them ready in time for the 5th October when I have my appointment in Toulouse.

I have decided to stick with my 'titre de séjour' permanant  despite the suggestions that it may become invalid after the UK is no longer in the EU.

The only advantage I can see to taking nationality (and for me it is a big one)  would be the right to vote in all French elections, but nothing else would accrue as far as I can see.

[idun]

Lindal there are specific rules for children. and have nothing to do with the EU.

[Cathar Tours]

Pre 2009 that might be correct but if you check there are now EU rules.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

Some interesting information, thank you.

 

Our "local" office is 90 mins away in Toulouse, but it might be useful to go and have a chat with them to make sure we know what they need (and I do understand very well that each department may interpret the rules differently !).

 

All the boys are over 18 so they have to do it themselves and not rely on us.

 

As to the point raised by CT as to why. It's not tied to Brexit (per-se) but they would have an advantage being a French national, certain employment opportunities will be open to them, e.g. pompiers, gendarmes etc, in fact I think any Public role would be available, whereas it wouldn't if they just held British nationality (....my interpretation). Besides, they've been in France for more than half their lives and this is their home.

 

[NormanH]

This is what I got from Toulouse:

1) http://www.haute-garonne.gouv.fr/Demarches-administratives/Immigration-et-integration/Integration/Postulants-domicilies-dans-un-autre-departement-de-l-ex-region-Midi-Pyrenees

2) http://www.haute-garonne.gouv.fr/content/download/9556/62022/file/22092016+Liste+des+pi%C3%A8ces+justificatives+pour+une+demande+de+natura%E2%80%A6.pdf

I have to say that I found the whole tone of that, including the capitalisation and the use of red very off-putting

[lindal1000]

I think applying for (and acquiring) French Nationality at this point will end a lot of uncertainty around at this time for British immigrants. If you are French it won't make any difference what the UK decides to do and what it negotiates regarding free movement as dual nationality will mean that you keep your right to residence and free movement to other EU countries, and as Honeysuckle says, the right to apply for certain jobs, the same rights to education, the rights to vote..all important things..well for me anyway. I'm also not enjoying being in the position of being a bargaining tool for the British Government. Would rather take matters into my own hands.

[Cathar Tours]

I don't think it will make a lot of difference being that the system and laws are already in place. The only difference regarding the UK leaving the EU will effect men and women over 65 who will no longer get access to the French healthcare system via an S1. There is also the issue if the EHIC card as well which will probably go.

For people like my father who work, pay tax etc. it won't make any difference as they are in the French system anyway.

Edit (because I can't find the bit I read) - There will be an attempt in the near future to extend the residency requirement for seeking citizenship from 5 to 10 years.

I can see the attraction of being a functionaire, job for life and a decent pension. Education, well any resident is entitled but then your old so it does not really count. Voting, well you have that right anyway at local level other than that do you really fancy Hollande, M. Bling-Bling or perhaps Mme Le Pen if your a fascist. Personally I will stick with my newly acquired Irish passport for travel as it lets you into a lot more countries than an English or French one does with no hassle.

[NormanH]

[quote user="lindal1000"]I think applying for (and acquiring) French Nationality at this point will end a lot of uncertainty around at this time for British immigrants. If you are French it won't make any difference what the UK decides to do and what it negotiates regarding free movement as dual nationality will mean that you keep your right to residence and free movement to other EU countries, and as Honeysuckle says, the right to apply for certain jobs, the same rights to education, the rights to vote..all important things..well for me anyway. I'm also not enjoying being in the position of being a bargaining tool for the British Government. Would rather take matters into my own hands.[/quote]

Except that the FN are making loud noises about ending dual nationality (that is demanding that you choose one, and the same crew are in favour of a Frexit, so if,

God help us, Marine le Pen becomes President you would lose free movement to other EU countries even if you chose French.

[Cathar Tours]

Has there not already been an attempt (didn't get passed but only just) to stop dual citizenship in France last year or was this something different?

[mint]

Yes, CT, there was some debate about it but, AFAIK, it was to do with stopping known and suspected terrorists from having dual nationality.

I didn't think it applied to "ordinary" law-abiding citizens.

[Chancer]

To save me reading through everything again including the links, did someone say that I would need marriage/birth certificates for my grandparents for my application?

 

I dont even know the names of 3 out of 4 of them and were I able to find out they would have been married over 100 years ago in a place unknown.

[alittlebitfrench]

I would not worry about it Chancer, you will fail on the French test anyway. LOL.

I would not go down the French Citizenship thingy until all the those well educated important idiots know what they are doing in life. The Uk will not exit the EU they will go with Sarkys new plan....which to be fair is a good one.

I dare say legalising 500,000 hungry gîte owners living in Bergerac are the least of France problems at the moment.

[NormanH]

[quote user="Chancer"]

To save me reading through everything again including the links, did someone say that I would need marriage/birth certificates for my grandparents for my application?

 

I dont even know the names of 3 out of 4 of them and were I able to find out they would have been married over 100 years ago in a place unknown.

[/quote]

I only needed birth and marriage for my parents...

LA

COPIE INTÉRALE DE L’ACTE DE NAISSANCE DE VOS DEUX PARENTS (ORIGINAL SI POSSIBLE ET

2 PHOTOCOPIES OBLIGATOIR

ES)

. SI VOS AUTORITÉS NATIONALES NE SONT PAS EN MESURE DE

VOUS FOURNIR CES DOCUMENTS, INDIQUER DANS UN COURRIER LES RAISONS QUI S'Y OPPOSENT.



LA

COPIE INTÉGRALE DE L’ACTE DE MARIAGE DE VOS PARENTS (S’ILS SONT MARIÉS) OU TOUT

DOCUMENT OFFICIEL PRÉCISANT

LA DATE ET LE LIEU DE MARIAGE DE VOS PARENTS (ORIGINAL SI

POSSIBLE ET 2 PHOTOCOPIES OBLIGATOIRES).

SI VOS AUTORITÉS NATIONALES NE SONT PAS EN

MESURE DE VOUS FOURNIR CES DOCUMENTS, INDIQUER DANS UN COURRIER LES RAISONS QUI S'Y

OPPOSENT.





Le cas échéant, la

photocopie de leur acte de décès si celui

-

ci comporte la mention de la date et du lieu de naissance

(traduction obligatoire si le document n'est pas en français (original et 2 photocopies)

[Chancer]

I dont have any of them either, all I have is my birth certificate and a photocopie of my fathers death certificate.

I can work out the year of their marriage but not where, I know their date of births and my fathers place of birth even that is uncertain, for my mother its just an educated guess as to what county.

I dont even have my NIC card, just my birth certificate.

 

Still its more achievable without grandparents, nonetheless my father was born 100 years ago and my mother between the wars.

[NormanH]

You can get them but Loiseau is much more of an expert on it than I am

[NormanH]

[quote user="Cathar Tours"]Has there not already been an attempt (didn't get passed but only just) to stop dual citizenship in France last year or was this something different?[/quote]

It was a proposal to strip those who committed terrorist attacks of  French nationality if they had it as part of dual nationality.

On the surface that seems reasonable, but as Mme Taubira pointed out, and resigned over in the end, that implies that there are two classes of French Nationality and those with dual nationality will always be regarded as lesser citizens who can be stripped of it.

That is an argument that might give pause for thought to those seeking it.

[mint]

Yes, I remember now Mme Taubira giving an interview about this.  Seems ages ago but I think it was probably only spring of this year?

Being an admirer, I was sad when she left office.