required paperwork now

[jacko19]

Having read the posts regarding brexit I have a question for NOW. We have a property in France that we class as a holiday home but we are spending more and more time here than the UK. We have never been challenged upon this but if we were what paperwork should we have? I am currently pleading ignorance!

Will wait for more info regarding Brexit which will obviously be a different story!

[EuroTrash]

How do you mean, what paperwork should you have?

If it came to establishing how long you spend where, you would need your travel tickets (ferries, trains or planes). But if an authority really wants to find out they can check with the transport operators, it's all on computer.

Why do you think anybody might challenge you?

[cajal]

"We have a property in France that we class as a holiday home but we are

spending more and more time here than the UK. We have never been

challenged upon this but if we were what paperwork should we have?"

Might

I suggest that you explain from where you expect these challenges may

arise eg Police, Internal Revenue, Vehicle Licencing, Local Authority

for example.. and from which country...France or UK and for what purpose

this challenge might be made.

If you are more explicit with your

request for information you should ellcit more accurate responses from

members on these boards.

regards

cajal

[jacko19]

Sorry probably should have said - are there any/what are the current rules regarding length of time in the country.

[Chancer]

No more than 365 days in a calendar year excepting leap years.

[andyh4]

Very difficult to give any definitive answers Jacko19.

There is an oft quoted 183day rule - that has no basis in fact unless you are involved in international transport.

If you spend more than 90 days in the UK (including travel) you will remain UK tax resident.

If your economic centre of activity (almost impossible to define unless you are a tax authority) is in France then you could also be French tax resident.

If your car is in France for more than 6 months, then it needs to be registered in France.

and so on....

The documents you need to prove or disprove that any of these might apply will in the first instance be proof of travel. After that it depends on what you are trying to demonstrate, so you need to be even more precise.

[cajal]

[quote user="jacko19"]Sorry probably should have said - are there any/what are the current rules regarding length of time in the country.[/quote]

As has already been stated - 365 etc.

However, if your main

residence is located in France you will be classed as resident and

should follow all the procedures required to be a French resident.

If

your main residence is not in France, but you do spend in excess of 183

days in France, the authorities will ignore your main residence status

and consider you as a resident of France with all the implications that

holds for you.

In either case it is your responsibility to inform

the appropriate authorities of your circumstances, in particularly the

tax authority of the department where your home is located.

regards

cajal

[EuroTrash]

You say you class your home as a holiday home, but obviously you're not entirely comfortable about this or you wouldn't be asking the question.

The French definition of residence is very short and succinct and can easily be found online. Start by reading that and deciding whether the cap fits or not.

The UK definition of residence is about 90 pages long and is as clear as mud. You read it, then you go through a test procedure which involves counting how many ties you have to the UK and how many days you spent where during the course of the year. You might come up with a clear cut answer or you might just end up confused.

Once you've done those two things, you'll know how you stand with regard to France's definition of residence, and if it's clear cut you"ll also know where you stand with regard to the UK's definition. It may turn out that you meet one set of criteria, or the other, or both. Then you can take it from there.

[andyh4]

BTW

you can be resident in more than one country at once. The only "problem" is that you should then fill out tax in a more specific way.returns in each country. Double taxation treaties ensure you do not pay tax twice on most income.

For years OH and I were tax resident in three countries simultaneously.

If you give a bit more info we can probably advise in a more specific way.

[EuroTrash]

Even if you're dual resident (or more), it still has to be established which country will officially be your main residence. In that country you have to declare worldwide income, and for the other countries you just declare income that's taxable in that country.

In fact - just to add to the earlier post - once you've been resident it's quite hard to get out of HMRC's clutches without making a clean break. One of the ties is 'were you tax resident last year' - so until you actually have broken free for a year, you are always going to have one tie before you even start looking at other ties you might have.

[Chancer]

I have to say that my 10 years off the radar were very peacefull indeed compared to the lives that some lead  constantly seeking hoops to jump through and being torn between conflicting advice containing the words "must" and "have to"

 

Foutez-moi le paix worked just fine for me.

[idun]

Strange reading this as I have just returned home after a break and we have both had snotty letters from our french bank, starting that we are valued customers, however, fill the rest in, justifying who we are and they will be sending the information to the tax authorities in France and the UK.

.......... and to top it all they want to know if we are americans????? they know bloody well we are not, they have always known.......... grrrrrrrr

I am not sure what the OP is asking, if they spend most of the year in France, in their own home, then surely, they are french residents. And I would dearly love to know how their home insurance in the UK works, as the AA cancelled ours when there would be no one in our UK home for over 12 weeks at a time, and I had the devils own job getting an insurer to cover us. And friends UK insurer would not cover them after an incident in their home, repairs costing £40k and they were away for over 40days, which is all their insurance covered for.

[Chancer]

I had that with my insurers when I went travelling in 2004, I had a housesitter/lodger because I knew that I should not leave the place alone, I had been to S.A. for a month during which time the muppet had flooded the place, no problem with paying out but when they realised I would be away for more than IIRC 6 weeks they cancelled my Policy, for some strange reason had I lied and answered yes that it was for work then they would have continued cover.

 

I was uninsured and no-one else would cover me as I had been refused insurance, I was due to leave for Latin America in 3 days so I had to do some lateral thinking, I phoned Direct Line again and told them that my housesitter (another male) was my partner and that I considered that they were discriminating against us, there was a long pause and they said in an embarrassed tone "did you say that Mr X is your partner?"  I replied (lied) in the affirmative, they put me on hold for 10 minutes and came back saying no problem Mr Chancer, we have put your partner Mr X as joint Policy-holder, enjoy your travels [:D]

 

I dont like telling white lies but I was really stuck and it shows how daft these companies are and how quickly they change their "rules" when they can see bad publicity.

[idun]

I shall never use AA  insurance or breakdown again for anything at all, ever.

I didn't have a problem getting other insurance though, as the contract was void, with no one living in the property, rather than them actually cancelling it. Which actually, in proper human being's language is exactly the same thing, but insurers, well.......... I cannot type what I think of them, the board would censor me.

[Jessica Wilkins]

Thank you for the suggestions.