garden paving

[connolls]

Hello all,

Just in the process of doing more work in garden and want to pave an area with "rustic" type paving slabs, anyone out there found anywhere around the bellac/limoges area that is reasonably priced..............they seem more expensive than the "rustic/riven" type slabs in the uk in the garden centres we've looked at.. Any suggestions gratefully accepted. Thanks.

[connolls]

What..................no idea's.I'll keep looking but thanks for the viewings. [:(]

[Speedy]

Don't forget if your building a 'terrace' (from memory bigger than 2m2) you need to inform the marie!

[ethelred]

Hi Speedy - why do you need to let the mairie know that you are paving part of your garden?  I ask as I am in the process of making a terrace and had not even thought to contact the mairie about it.

[Clair]

Before you create a new area over 2m² in surface, you should complete a déclaration préalable.

If the surface area is over 20m², you need to complete a permis de construire.

If the surface area is under 2m², no need to worry.

[connolls]

Hi thanks for that information, I hadn't even given it a thought, do you have to complete these forms even if you are paving over a hard surface area that exsists already in the garden, albeit covered in stone chippings. Thanks.

[AnOther]

I'm puzzled on this one also Clair, surely this is meant to apply to habitable areas not just a bit of crazy paving or a concrete hard standing for a car ?

[Clair]

The rule which is used for sheds (which are not habitable either) applies to hard-standing, terraces...

[quote]Terrasses

En application de l’article R. 112-2, commenté par la circulaire n° 90 du 12 novembre 1990, une terrasse

crée de la surface de plancher qui constitue de la surface hors œuvre

brute (S.H.O.B). La réforme n’apporte aucune modification sur ce point.

Quelle que soit sa hauteur, une terrasse reste créatrice de S.H.O.B. En

outre toute constrution, quelle que soit sa nature, doit respecter les

règles d’urbanisme, y compris les règles d’emprise au sol, les

distances par rapport aux limites, ....source"[/quote]

(a terrace creates gross floor

area (SHOB)....)

[Postie]

Hi Clair (font of all knowledge!)

If you built your 2m2 terrace, then decided to extend it by another 2m2, how long would you have to wait to avoid completing a déclaration préalable?   [8-)]  All this paperwork just seems bizzare to create a paved area in one's garden!!! 

Thanx

Mrs Postie

[AnOther]

I naturally bow to your understanding of French Clair but translated by BabelFish your quotation seems to talk specifically of Terraces so what is the relevance to a bit of paving or a hard standing. Do such 2 dimensional items really fall under the definition of construction in this context ?

"Terraces

Pursuant to article R. 112-2, with accompanying notes by the circular

n° 90 of November 12, 1990, a terrace creates floor space which

constitutes overall surface rough (S.H.O.B). The reform does not make

any modification on this point. Whatever its height, a terrace remains

creative S.H.O.B. Moreover any construction, whatever its nature, must

comply with the rules of town planning, including the rules of

influence on the ground, the distances compared to the limits"

[Clair]

If it is permanent and over 2m², it needs permission.

[Théière]

Oops, thats another one broken (rule not paving slab)

[AnOther]

At the bottom of my back garden there was an existing concrete slab measuring some 5m x 5m on which sat the inflatable pool we inherited with the house. To accommodate the Intex pool we subsequently bought I extended the slab in one dimension by 1.2m using 600 x 600 paving slabs, a total of approximately 5 sq/m.

According to this then I have broken the rules !

Complete lunacy [:-))]

[AnOther]

Around part of my house there is a concrete walkway about 1m wide. If I wish to overlay this with crazy paving or tiles do I need permission ?

[AnOther]

My plot is quite steeply sloping and on the upper part there was a graded driveway which had become seriously eroded by rain water. I've had it scraped and resurfaced in concrete topped off with a compacted layer of costine to make it look natural.

Have I broken the rules yet again ?

[connolls]

Hello again, from the original poster,

The article appears to "talk" about "creating" floor space, as i won't be creating floor space, as i said, just paving over an already exsisting hard standing does this still affect me. I'm getting more confused by the contributions but very much enjoying the debate.[blink]

[mint]

connolls, I don't like to think that you might be lonely as you are new.  So, from what Clair says (and she is nearly always spot on), then if you are not slabbing over the existing space by more than 2 metres sq. (or do I mean 2 sq metres?) you should be OK.

Going back to your original question, I, too, have been utterly shocked at the prices for paving slabs out here in France.  To the extent that OH now refuses to buy any and we are making do with some terracotta slabs that some builder friend got from an old house and which were to have been discarded.

Don't worry, someone who knows more than I do will be along to talk to you soon.  I only butted in to say hi![:)]

[connolls]

Hi sweet 17,

Thanks for the reply, I'm convinced that what you say is absolutely right about clair as i've read some more of her advice on other things now. I'm just trying to delude myself on the area of 2 square metre's being the rule of thumb as long as i can.......................how sad is that. Mind you if i can't find any cheaper than i've already seen then i'll be leaving the old chippings down !!!! Now sad and lonely no more (L.O.L) [:D]

[AnOther]

Sorry Clair and others but I'm yet to be convinced that a flat area of paving slabs or concrete etc., be it of 2sq/m or any reasonable size, constitutes a 'construction' and even in the bureaucratic morass that France is it seems preposterous to regard it as so and it require permission.

I still feel that Clair's quote relates to extensions to ones actual property rather than a simple bit of paving or a bit of concrete to park a car on.

Another situation for you: the approach to my garage is tarmac with some shingle on top but in quite poor condition, not to mention a PITA if working on the car, so I plan to concrete it over. Do I need to ask/tell the Marie - why - of what consequence or detriment is that to anyone ?

[mint]

Erns, I don't think that "consequence or detriment" has anything to do with it.  I think it's so's they can put your council taxes up![:P]

By the way, I don't think it's "permission" as such; more a sort of "building notice" like we had back in Blighty.

[AnOther]

Increased tax sounds like a consequence to me sweets. If I understand it tax is based on the notional rental value so if I significantly improve my property with say another bedroom or a bathroom then clearly the potential rental value could be higher but a crazy paving path or concrete hard standing ?

If I plant some nice trees or cultivate a pretty garden that could make the make the property more desirable and hence higher tax. Where does it stop.

Permission was used as broad term and I don't recall having to ask/tell my local council in UK diddly squat about paving a bit of my garden or putting down a hard standing. You have permitted development, planning permission and building regulations but what is 'building notice' ?

[alig99]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

Permission was used as broad term and I don't recall having to ask/tell my local council in UK diddly squat about paving a bit of my garden or putting down a hard standing. You have permitted development, planning permission and building regulations but what is 'building notice' ?

[/quote]

 

Sorry to tell you Ernie, but you would now have to ask your local council in the UK for planning permission if you want to pave just a bit of your garden.  The new regs came in this year partly as a result of the flooding issues some parts of the country have had.

[Maricopa]

[quote user="ErnieY"]I still feel that Clair's quote relates to extensions to ones actual property rather than a simple bit of paving or a bit of concrete to park a car on.
[/quote]

Sorry Ernie Y, but the Declaration Preabable has a specific section on it for the number of parking places before and after any work is done[:-))]

[AnOther]

alig99:

I had heard that in some inner city areas there were moves afoot to prohibit concreting or tarmacing over front gardens for the reasons you state, but are you sure that this has been

A/ implemented nationwide

and

B/ To what extent it applies - e.g. <2sq/m ?

And incidentally, block paving where the blocks are laid on a bed of sand/cement is probably just as effective a draining surface as earth compacted by the weight of vehicles parking on it.

Maricopa:

Curious to know how concreting/paving/tarmacing over an existing area, or areas, where cars are already habitually parked is considered altering the number of parking spaces available ?

 

[AnOther]

Clair,

On the site you copied the rules on Terraces from there is another section which mentions 20sq m which is a number I have previously seen in relation to new construction and seems eminently more reasonable !

It's a bit confusing in translation so I wonder if you'd care to comment ?

And what on earth does SHOB mean ?