Petit Futé - worth doing or not?

[mascamps.com]

Having been stung with Chez Nous, I'm debating whether or not I should pay Petit Futé and its cousins in Germany, Italy and the UK 200€

Is it any use in getting bookings?

 

Arnold

 

[Tony KayIts only spilt milk, the cat will have it.....]

How so been stung Arnold? Is it a case of the listing just not turning into bookings?

I'd be interested to know what owners of B&B's etc expect of sites like Chez Nous. By that I mean, what do you hope for when you sign up? (quite aside from achieving bookings)

Do they list all the information that you would hope for?

As many pictures as you would like?

The ability to book online? Is that important to you?

Do you feel like you are competing with too many other outlets?

Do you have your own website, and does the listing link to it?

[Miki]

I did warn Arnold that Chez Nous was not much cop for B&B's but to be fair, he didn't have to listen and as with anything, one perhaps should try something for oneself but unfortunately, just like others we know, it didn't work for him.

Chez Nous is in general, the number one for brochure advertising but for gîtes. It is not all things to all men and for B&B, I know of no one where it has been cost effective.

To save me reposting Arnold, Petit Futé has not worked very well for many people we know but again, that does not mean it might not work for others, just that I do not know of any it has been a success for !

[Ian Hoare<br>All the best<br>Ian<br>La Souvigne Corrèze<br>http:www.souvigne.com]

Hi,

We were included in Petit futé free of charge and without asking our permission. They copied our GdF entry varbatim.

It was worth what we paid for it.

Not one single booking in the three years we were in, until they asked for money. (Of course ymmv).

[mascamps.com]

Stung in the sense of £500 out, two hits on my website and no bookings. OK, I know that they can't guarantee bookings and I wouldn't expect them to but there should have been more than two hits on the website over 12 months. I've lots more hits from ourinns than that already and it's only been on the go a few months.

Miki, unfortunately your warning got to me after I'd parted with the cash. Although to be honest I reckon that I might have gone for it anyway to see if I was one of the people who it did work for. CN really does confuse me as I can't see any reason why we shouldn't have had hits from them.

I suppose if nothing else, PF is about 1/3rd of the cost of CN.

I sort-of like the idea of PF in principle as it would give me (in theory) a presence in the French, German, Italian and UK markets. On the other hand I'm none too keen on binning 200€.

 

Arnold

 

[Mpprh]

Hi

Isn't this a difficult question ?

I know of lots of house rentals and sales from my own (very local) website. But if I was looking I would probably use Google and then go to someone who specialises in the required subject.

But then, there are two different sorts of buyer. The first is emotional : Sees something - falls  in love and books it on the spot. Easy to measure.

The second type is more analytical, puts the info into a specially created "holiday 2005 gites" subdirectory in his favourites and comes back later. Maybe 12 months later ? Now, how would you know why he arrived at your website, or phoned you ?

So I'm not sure direct bookings always give the total picture.

Peter

 

 

 

 

 

[mascamps.com]

Indeed Peter. As it happens I have one such couple in tonight. They booked though a website that we're on and I'd have been recording them as sourced from it ordinarily yet they told us that what brought them here was our own website. Which highlights to me that I need to be a bit more upfront about the booking facility on our own site if nothing else!

I find it really hard to identify how the French find us as they nearly always phone so I end up lumping a high proportion of them into "miscellaneous" which is a dead loss when you're thinking of renewing advertising. Well, at least I can be fairly sure that they didn't find us in CN!

 

Arnold

 

[Loiseau]

I have just had a week in a B&B in northern France, and many of the other guests passing through seemed to have come across it in a Michelin publication called something like "Charming Places to Stay in France".

I had not seen that book before, but obviously it is quite well-known.  (I picked the B&B from "Savoir Plaire", which is a booklet about a quality benchmark of the same name for restaurants/campsites/accommodation/tourist attractions/etc in the Nord/Pas de Calais area, awarded by the regional tourist board.)

Angela

[Quillan]

In my opinion (for what its worth) you really have to get registered with one of the big organisations in France then join something to compliment them.

I believe the best way to go is to join GDF then something like BNBFrance. Both these organisations will not only ensure that your accomodation is to an acceptable standard but will give you a presences via books in several countries and via websites. The problem with books however is that even if you are put in one straight away you might find that it takes a couple of years before the bookings appear in any great quantity. This is because people keep their books for 3 or 4 years rather than bin them and buy a new one every year. We have guests turning up here with GDF books five years old, the oldest I have seen is 1998.

If you want to do your market research then have a look at other peoples sites. Many of them have links or 'badges' to the people they use. Established B and B's probably have 4 or 5 and these tend to comprise of two or simular of what I have just mentioned plus a couple more aimed at specific types of client they wish to attract.

It's so easy to throw money at companies and not see results then move on to another when what you want to do is capitalise on other peoples mistakes, let them make them and when they have found the best solution copy it.

Theres always good sense in using free websites that you come across from time to time as they cost nothing and you never know.

[mascamps.com]

The keeping of guidebooks makes life really complicated when you're trying to work out how your guests are finding you. Our place was in Michelin up to two owners ago and we've received a number of guests from that. It's the French that are the worst really as they almost always phone so you've little idea of how they find you. Which reminds me ... must add "how did you find us" to the checkin form.

We're on heaps of sites but what we're looking for in PF is something "different", to attract those who don't use the internet. Yes, I know, heresy to say that but I'm sure there are loads of people out there who don't book their hols online even now.

I sort-of agree with the theory of being in specialist guides but in the sense that they should be addons to a lot of general listings. We tried to get house hunters in FPN for instance but only got one because house hunters use general guides themselves. Same for biking, rambling, etc.

Laughably the only free site that we've definitely had bookings from (and we're on every free site that we could find) is ourinns! Still, that's a bit unusual in that, whilst it is free, it's run as a commercial site.

 

Arnold

 

[Quillan]

[quote]The keeping of guidebooks makes life really complicated when you're trying to work out how your guests are finding you. Our place was in Michelin up to two owners ago and we've received a number of gu...[/quote]

I don't quite understand the need to religiously keep records of where every one of your bookings  comes from. Don't get me wrong we do this but if we miss getting the answer we won't go cut our wrists. Surely it's all about bums in beds more than where they come from. To suggest that you won't join GDF for example because by being in the publications you will find it difficult to keep records of which ones the come from is a bit silly. For GDF we have GDF and for BNB we have BNB regardles of which publication it comes from within each group. It's GDF and BNB we write the cheques to and we are only interested if each one gives us a good return not where they publish.

I don't keep any information as to which free website gives me the most bookings because it's free. If they then decide to charge then I wouldn't use them anymore. If you put all these sites and the rest of it in a drop down menu on your website it could get a bit heavy going. Why not use a specialized B&B/Gite or campsite in house booking system, I have one and it's vey good and keeps track of all this sort of thing.

[mascamps.com]

I'm not totally over the top about the records but at the moment I feel that I've too many people (and most of those French) falling into the "don't know how they found us" category.

The particular complication is one French site which gives us a lot of hits. It's free but has a paid-for option which highlights your place more so I'm debating about that one.

I've not forgotten about that booking system you mailed me ages ago,  just haven't had the time to look at it properly yet.

 

Arnold

 

[Coco]

We're on heaps of sites but what we're looking for in PF is something "different", to attract those who don't use the internet. Yes, I know, heresy to say that but I'm sure there are loads of people out there who don't book their hols online even now.

I agree Arnold.  We want to be in a hard copy of something as well (yes, we're aiming at GDF for next year) as not everyone uses the internet, or indeed some just head off and book a couple of days ahead, whilst on the road.

I'm with Arnold about wanting to know where the bookings have come from Chris.  It makes sense, so that you know which sites to renew on if you've paid a small fee.

BTW, I'd be interested to know about this booking system you have if you wouldn't mind sending me details.

[mascamps.com]

We've had quite a number of French say that they found us in yellow pages which is handy as it's free (isn't it??). However, Mr Yellow Pages phones us up every three or four months and tries to sell us a display ad for 200€ or so.

I keep thinking that this would be a waste of money, but would it? The French certainly use the phone a whole lot to book us but in most cases (so far as I can work out) they get the number from our website. On the other hand, if they're using the phone so much it implies that they use the phone book a lot too.

On a totally different tack, what about Minitel adverts?

 

Arnold

 

[Quillan]

"I'm with Arnold about wanting to know where the bookings have come from Chris.  It makes sense, so that you know which sites to renew on if you've paid a small fee."

Yes but what I was saying was you don't have to put in all the names of the websites and books that GDF, Clevacances and BNB France put you in as you pay for then as a block payment. You don't need to put the free ones in either for reasons already given. The smaller ones or people like Visit France etc that you pay for should go on your list. I am rather hoping that with GDF and BNB France I will not need some of the ones I currently use and consolidate my advertising and save a few bob.

[mascamps.com]

I take your point about not really needing to know that GdF put you in the AA book etc. as it's "free" after you've paid up your subscription.

However, it's still useful to know that the PF ad will put you in an Italian book. You might find that you get nobody for Italy even with that therefore it's probably not worth looking at the Italian market for further advertising.

 

Arnold

 

[Quillan]

[quote]I take your point about not really needing to know that GdF put you in the AA book etc. as it's "free" after you've paid up your subscription. However, it's still useful to know that the PF ad will p...[/quote]

Sorry I think you might have misunderstood. BNB France supply the details for PF and all the other books like Thomas Cook (UK),  Gremese Bed and Breakfast (Italia), Gut & Preiswert (Deutschland) all of which is included in the price which is 610€ for 3 years. There is also a phone service and two websites on which you are listed.

[Ian Hoare<br>All the best<br>Ian<br>La Souvigne Corrèze<br>http:www.souvigne.com]

Hi,

to some extent I agree with Chris, I'm not going to jump out of the window if I don't know where one particular set of guests has come from. However, I also agree with those wh've said that knowing what medium your guests use to find you is essential commercial information.

(As I have my own website, and am referenced from several other online sites all as WELL is being in several books, I prefer to use the word "medium" rather than guide).

What I do, Arnold, when people phone to book, is to ask, Est-ce que je peux vous demander comment vous nous avez trouvé?" Direct question, which usually leads to a short discussion "Le web? Avec un moteur de recherche, ou le site de GdF ou autres?" It takes less than 30secs to get this information.

As for noting it, I don't use a specialised program, I use an antediluvian Dos based database that I customised to store just the information I need. Name, address, phone number, when booked, date arriving, length of stay, (room number) dietary restrictions, whether booking a meal, state of booking (enquiry, booked, confirmed with deposit, arrived, paid), comments and source of booking. So I can easily search the "source of booking" field for GR (for guide routard) GdF (for Gites de France) web (for search motor) WOM - word of mouth, repeat and so on. That tells me that not once did I ever get one single person using the Petit Futé.

[mascamps.com]

Indeed Chris. I just refer to it as PF as that'll be the most visible incarnation of it to us.

Ian, I didn't think that I needed to do that initially as we knew where people were getting us from by and large. What I'm finding now after looking at the data from the last year is that it would have been better to ask the question of the French (it's more obvious where the rest have found us).

Incidently, the most important thing to know is where they first found you that is most important. We're finding more and more frequently that people are looking around then specifically searching for us which means that we'd ordinarily put their source down as "own website" but really it's that first search that is the important one. I imagine that with your track record you get a lot as notionally "own website" but in reality are word of mouth or existing clients. Even with our considerably shorter track record we are already getting repeat clients and word of mouth ones too.

Having said all that, I'm reluctant to quiz people on it too much as I think it could easily seem like an interrogation. We have started casually asking more and more though and were quite surprised at some of the answers. Some that had "obviously" booked through a specific website in fact found us via our own website and only later booked us online (which in turn has highlighted that we need to make it more obvious that people can book directly on our own website).

It's really the French that confuse us the most. I think mainly because they have so many more reasons to be staying with us. Taking the last few weeks as being reasonably typical, we have had Parisiens on weekend trips (from the website but they phoned), some business people (I think via the website but again they called) and a wedding booking (our very first booking from the tourist office). Everyone else is nice and simple - they're tourists or house hunters.

 

Arnold