Swimming pool or not?

[mascamps.com]

We've been thinking of adding a pool to our place and now find ourselves sitting firmly on the fence as to whether or not it's a good idea.

On the plus side, we think that it will attract more people and that they'll stay longer on average too. Does that actually happen to you guys who've installed a pool?

On the downside, it's 15.000€ or so and we think that it will encourage people to stay around the place during the day. Do people stay around all day if you've a pool?

It's mainly the "staying around" that's concerning us at the moment. At present, most people leave for the day after breakfast and aren't back 'til 7pm or later so we've the whole place to ourselves most of the time. Having guests here all day would change the atmosphere of the place for us somewhat. Does that kind of thing happen? Does it mean that you have to leave to get a bit of a break during the day? Do you end up continually pestered for drinks, snacks, etc?

 

Arnold

 

[Alan]

On the downside, it's 15.000€ or so  we think that it will encourage people to stay around the place during the day. Do people stay around all day if you've a pool?

15000€ yes and the rest by the time you are finished, I would say most of our July bookings and all of the August ones are because we have a pool, all are families and to be honest due to our location I don’t feel there is much for children to do, so having a pool does help.

we think that it will encourage people to stay around the place during the day. Do people stay around all day if you've a pool?

Yes it does, we found in the previous 2 years most people would go out after breakfast do a little sight seeing have lunch and then come back and spend the afternoon round the pool. This week I have guests in and for 2 days they have not left the place at all.

 

Having guests here all day would change the atmosphere of the place for us somewhat. Does that kind of thing happen?

 

I would say yes by default fault it does , 4 children and say 3 adults playing in the water does not have a calming effect , its not so bad if I am cooking the evening meal that night. Another downside is that we will not use the pool if we have guests using it, that’s just me I know. Last year I use to quiz them to find out how long they would be away and then take a quick dip before they returned. Of course it also has to be cleaned every day which all takes time

 

Do you end up continually pestered for drinks, snacks, etc?

 

No as I don’t have a licence to sell them

Alan

http://monsite.wanadoo.fr/Cauteret_GB/

[mascamps.com]

Sounds like a lot of hassle to me. On the other hand if it's lifting the bookings I guess it's something that we might have to put up with.

I hadn't thought of the kids. We don't get a whole lot of them here at the moment so I guess that adding a pool would help to change that.

What sort of time does it take to do the cleaning?

 

Arnold

 

[Iceni]

You need to take the cost of the pool, add in the running costs and maintenance and work out how much extra you are going to charge/extra bookings you need to recoup the cost - unless of course you want a pool yourself.

I think that unless you want the pool, it would take a long time, if ever to recoup the cost - that is just the sensible person in me - we don't let out anything but if we could afford a pool I would jump at the chance.

[mascamps.com]

Indeed. We were vaguely thinking that perhaps we'd get away with adding 5€ or so per night with the pool but that means 3000 nights of extra bookings to pay the upfront costs.

 

Arnold

 

[Alan]

Ok you can buy an automatic hover for I think about 700 euro, which in theory would cut the time spent. We are surround by trees so provided there is no wind in the summer months I spend 15 to 20 minutes per day around the pool. Also you will need to buy an alarm or fencing and of course have paving around the pool which is very expensive. Its funny we wanted the pool for ourselves but find in July and August we are hardly ever in it.

 

You also have to ask yourself how many months of the year will it be used, ok the kids went in this year in April and I did go in the 1^st of May, last year nobody went in until June and we closed it down the end of September. So maybe you also need to think about heating, depending on how many rooms you have and if you think this would attract more people

 

Alan

http://monsite.wanadoo.fr/Cauteret_GB/

[Coco]

I'm with Iceni on this one.  Even by increasing your prices it's going to take a long, long time to get the money back.  So unless a pool is something that you wanted yourselves I don't think it is a viable prospect purely for increasing your bookings. 

We are knocking through into the barn next door, which will then free up our existing bedroom to rent out as a guest bedroom, with a children's bedroom above it.  This means that we will be able to get an extra 85 euros a night when we let it as a suite and 50 euros as a double.  The cost of the barn renovation means that it would probably take us in excess of ten years just to break even BUT we will be getting a better kitchen out of it (won't make us any more money, just make my life easier, working with more space) and our own living room, thus improving our quality of life by giving us privacy whenever we want it, so for us it is worth doing.  But I think this is what you have to bear in mind, outlay vs increased income plus increase in your own quality of life.

 

[Mpprh]

Hi

just an observation :

It may not just be an extra Euro 5 per night.

Outside July / August this may attract people who otherwise would have gone closer to the coast, or looked at only pool equipped properties ?

So, it may extend your season ?

Peter

 

 

 

[letrangere]

How long's the swimming season in your part of France in an unheated swimming pool?  That's something to consider, surely?  I know people far, far north of you who claim they swim daily from April to October but I'm not so sure I believe them.  Another point to consider, what impact will a pool have on your current garden?  They usually require a lot of expensive landscaping to make them look really good, and way too often they can spoil an otherwise lovely garden or view.  And the saddest sight on a winter's day is a leaf strewn pool cover.  M

[mascamps.com]

I reckon we could manage April to October alright. Possibly even late March to early November.

We've three main locations that we're looking at. One is in the corner of what used to be a childrens' playground but is quite clear now and isn't visible from the garden itself (which used to be really nice two owners ago but has gone to seed since). The other is where we may put our proposed picnic area in due course. Final choice is in our courtyard.

All three are dependent on what we can do with the pipes for our new septic tank. We thought that the courtyard was ideal but it's currently ruled out as the pipes for the existing septic tank crisscross it too much but we may be able to do it with the new one if we plan out the location of the pipes.

 

Arnold

 

[Wilko]

Food for thought:

I don't think that you will get much of a pool for 15,000 euros. Secondly the installation of a pool adds capital value to the property, tho maybe not if it is a cheap plastic one. Other add on costs are landscaping, safety measures, an automatic cover will cost half as much again as the pool, cost of water and replenishment  for us around 200/300 euros per year, robot cleaner 1500 euros, and worth every cent.

To prolong the season you will certainly have to heat it. No grants available for solar.Heat pump 6,000 euros. Here in Provence the temperature of the water is only 22 degrees so far, tho we have had a cool Spring. Without heating the season here would be June to end of October, tho for the latter months the pool would have to be covered at night.

I think that in this part of France it is an absolute necessity to provide a pool for clients and ourselves.

Rgds Wilko

 

[mascamps.com]

I suspect you're right. We were quoted £10,000 a couple of years ago for a smallish pool so I guess that €20.000 plus is more realistic and by the sound of it nearer €30.000 if you're heating it.

Is it actually worthwhile to heat the pool? I gather that the net effect of adding a pool is that you get more families but they can't really come outside July/August and Easter. Is it possible to add heating to an existing pool? I'm thinking that, if we do it, we'd have a non-heated pool initially to see how that goes with a view to adding heating later if that's possible.

How long do pools last? On purely financial terms I'm thinking that it would take five years or more to payback the initial outlay so obviously it would need to last a good deal longer than that.

 

Arnold

 

[Deby]

Mascamps,

Just had a quick nosey at your place - looks great by the way. If I considered myself a potential customer - a family with 2 kids, the fact there is no pool would put me off.  It has everything else I would wish mind you, nice accommodation, location and setting, character.  I would consider it for a night en route to somewhere but  would really miss not having a dip.

When adding a pool you will not recoup your money from your rental revenue, you will however recoup the cost on the 'value' of your place. 

15K sounds an underestimate for me, when you buy the pool, whether it be a structure, liner or shell, whatever you pay for this simply take the figure and double it, this would give you a more accurate cost. You've got to get the hole dug, buy a fence, terrace, landscape, furnish, add water and pay a little tax on it.  Plus all the little gadgets you need.  Not for the faint-hearted.

Deby

[Baz]

"Is it possible to add heating to an existing pool? I'm thinking that, if we do it, we'd have a non-heated pool initially to see how that goes with a view to adding heating later if that's possible."

The simple answer is yes and not very complicated. There are number of methods to heat a pool, but bear in mind the costs. A heat pump is a very efficient method of heating a pool, whilst the running cost are low the intial purchase is expensive. The size of pump required will depend on two factors, the size of the pool and which months you require it heated.

Baz

[mascamps.com]

Deby, we hadn't thought much about it before but in practice we don't get a whole lot of families with kids staying and it may be as you say that the lack of a pool goes some way to explain that.

I suspected that the €15k was a bit low as that rough quote was from before the new regulations kicked in for a start.

 

Arnold

 

[Babnik]

While you can get a pool for €15,000, the problem is that for a pool that will be used in a gite, you have to go with guidelines for a semi-public pool. More filters/skimmers, a shower and footbath among other things. This may not apply to all regions, as each region has it's own rules. Here in 17, they will check water quality once a month(in season only, so basically july and august), at your own expense...around €150 each time, and if you fail the test, yes you guessed it, you'll have to fix the problem and pay another €150. That's the rule here....I suppose you could not declare it as a semi-public pool, but I'm not sure where that leaves you!

[Poolguy]

If you want a 10 x 5 meter pool for example

it will be €14,000 incl.tax installation and fittings.

pool management, water quality assurance €2,500 (essential)

robot vac €450

Security fence €4,000

To me its obvious that the business will be more viable and the property will increse in value.

PM me for details

Andrew

[Poolguy]

Woops.....

forgot to add to the list

€3,200 for solar heating, heat pumps are OK but still cost money to run

Andrew

[Lizzie15]

If you want a 10 x 5 meter pool for example

it will be €14,000 incl.tax installation and fittings.

 

 

 

No,no, no. It costs more than that for anything decent and if it's not attractive it won't do the job.The plage is always expensive ( plage= those tiles surrounding the pool)., £20,000 minimum.I think some people posting are pool suppliers and touting for business- wait till you add it all up!!!!

 

 

[mascamps.com]

At the moment they can tout away as we don't have the money right now to put it in anyway, although all being well we will be thinking about it a lot more seriously this coming winter.

There's certainly a big difference between "having a pool" and "having a pool that people would want to use". Friends of ours have had the pool installed but were left with a considerable amount of work to get it to the "would want to use" state.

I do like the idea of being able to tick the "pool" box on our listings and I think that it will probably get to be more and more essential to have one as time goes on. However, I'm still none too keen on forking out what looks like being around 25.000€ or so to get a fully operational pool and also there's the business of people hanging around the place all day which is obviously going to change the atmosphere of the place for us. Or in other words, I'm still sitting on the fence but with one toe in the water.

 

Arnold

 

 

[Poolguy]

Lizzie

I am sure that you jibe was directed at me.

I believe that you are quite wrong about the cost of a pool. It does not need to cost what you say.. there are literally thousands of people in France who have paid these sort of prices (€14k for 10 x 5)for fine installations and are perfectly happy.

If you choose to spend an extra €10,000 or more to make it feel 'proper' that is your priveledge.

Your condemnation of those who are trying to improve the design and construction of swimming pools and make them accessable to more people is less than helpful. That is unless you are an expert in the business in which case I would like to read your considered view on the comparitive construction methods.

Please provide more detail on what you consider the 'correct' price for a 'proper' pool.... what is it exactly?

Mascamp .. sorry to get side tracked... I hope that you find what you want. If I can help with advice then feel free to contact me.

Andrew

[mascamps.com]

I suspect that it's far from an easy task to price a "proper" pool. I've not really looked into them terribly seriously so far but certainly have seen pools at around the 15.000€ mark. However, I'm not sure what's included in that sum. Obviously digging a big hole and plonking in a pool but beyond that I guess that covers and heating aren't. In the middle ground I don't know if they would have included things like the fencing (this was before the new regulations, so probably not) or the little bit around the pool to put the chairs and whatnot. Actually, it strikes me that even the water might not be included (I'm assuming that our little spring wouldn't be up to filling the thing).

Andrew, I wouldn't mind getting a rough quote, brochures, etc. As I say, this is very much early days in our thinking re the pool and the earliest we'd be thinking of having it installed would be later this year. Our address is on www.mascamps.com .

 

Arnold

 

[Deby]

Hello,

I have liaised with Andrew (Hendo) on several occasions and always found him very helpful and his advice has been very useful and certainly not based on trying to sell me something.

In fact I have not bought anything from him but his knowledge is sound and he is just sharing it with members of the forum, which is what the forum is all about.

By the way I am no relation to him (for the cynics out there).

Deby

(17 Charente Maritime)

[Poolguy]

Arnold

I'll get some information to you which I hope might be of some help in your decision making.

Deby

Thanks for the vote of confidence. This is as you say about sharing information, I hope to be publishing some 'data sheets' soon which cover this subject.

Andrew

[Lizzie15]

OK, I apologise.I believe that to have a pool put in, tiles round so as not to hurt your feet, winter cover,summer cover,pret a plonger in fact costs more than the sum you quote.If you can do all this for less then well done! That's great. In my experience, in my area, this is not the case.  This post is in reply to :

"Your condemnation of those who are trying to improve the design and construction of swimming pools and make them accessable to more people is less than helpful. That is unless you are an expert in the business in which case I would like to read your considered view on the comparitive construction methods.

Please provide more detail on what you consider the 'correct' price for a 'proper' pool.... what is it exactly?"

I really think it's great if you can provide a top quality pool ,ready to use with no extras,for the price you quote. Go for it!Good luck to you- I think the business probably needs more competition.