Separate Lave-Mains?

[rosiejayne]

Hi

I am interested to know if you run a tables d'hotes, if by law you have to have a separate hand wash basin and if it has to have a special tap, or can you just have the special tap - ie. using elbow or foot operated with a normal double sink.

Thanks in advance.

RJ

[lizzy h]

hello there,

you are inviting people to share your home, you are not a hotel therefore when doing evening meals you cook them normally in your kitchen as you would if serving your family or friends, you don't need special adaptions and a resturant style kitchen 'ie stainless steel) it it your home and just make sure your kitchen is clean and hygenic, you can go over the top you know!

[Alan]

Yes Liz that is correct as far as chambres d hotes is concerned. When we were graded they did not even wish to see the kitchen, only the dinner service. HoweverI am assuming RJ wants to serve meals to the general public that are not staying with her in her chambers d hotes. For this I am not so sure, that if you want a licence for table d hotes for the general public, then I have been lend to believe that there is more to that as far as the kitchen is concerned. We did think of maybe going down this route but the thought of modifying the kitchen would put us off. But having said that we have not made any enquiries to find out if this is the case as yet.

[rosiejayne]

Thank you for your replies, you have answered as I thought.  I only want to serve meals to the people who are staying in the chambres d'hotes, not to outsiders.  Recently I have been visited by the Veterinaires for a "controle", the same as the health and safety in UK - and have been told :-

that I have to fit a separate wash hand basin with arm or foot operated tap, foot operated bin, removable insect netting to any windows or doors that open on to the kitchen, have separate fridges for my families food and the guests food - which seems pretty stupid as we are told that we have to eat with out guests at the same table!!!  I must also keep all the labels of the food to show expiry dates etc. among other things.....

All was going very smoothly - until my lovely neighbour decided to write to these people to ask them to look at my business!  Charming.

So I am interested to hear if anyone else has had an inspection from these people and if so what the outcome is - alternatively - is there something written somewhere which states how my kitchen should be if I run a chambres d'hotes etc.

Thanks in advance.

RJ

[Quillan]

Nice neighbours!

To be honest, and I have been doing this for three nearly four years now and have been inspected by both GDF and Clévacances as well as BNB France, nobody has shown any interest in my kitchen at all. Sure our plates, glass's etc have been inspected but thats about all. So in all I have never been or heard off anybody having their kitchen inspected by any official body. I think my first questions would have been "Why are you inspecting me" followed by "What type of business do you think I am running here". Perhaps your neighbour thinks you are running TDH for non residents and thats what he told the inspectors.

Like wise I am also interested to hear if they gave you a 'ticket' or if it was that bad (no seperate sink and no seperated food without dates on is a very serious offence outide of B&B land) that they did not close you down? I was wondering if this might not have been some sort of scam?

If you are a member of Gite de France or Clévacances you could go to them for advice and support. They may even contact the parties directly to explain that you are just a CDH doing TDH for your residents only and therefore these rules are not applicable.

Anyway keep us posted and good luck.

[rosiejayne]

I am not registered with any body, ie. gdf etc, and it definately was not a scam - unfortunately.  I asked them why I was being inspected and they said because they had received a letter!!!

By law apparently they have to visit if someone has written to them.  After the visit, during which I argued that I am only a TdH serving residents and not a restaurant, to which they replied that all food serving premises - residents or non-residents now come under the same rulings of health and safety as a restaurant!!!  I then said well if that is the case why can't I open my doors and serve Joe Public - no answer.  After the visit I received official letter, which states the things that I have to carry out - although there was no date put on it by them - they did ask me to reply in writing before a certain date to state exactly when the work would be done - I said by the end of this year, which is now approaching!!  I presume that I will then receive another visit - who knows.

I think that this is something that all people operating as I am should be aware of.

If anyone has any solid proof - preferably in writing - in French that I could use to fight my case, I would be very grateful.

 

RJ

[Quillan]

I shall contact my GDF office in Carcassonne today and ask them if this is true. I won't get a reply in writing but I will let you know what they say.

I personally can't see this being true because every B&B in France will either have to stop serving breakfast (which is mandatory) and TDH or spend a fortune changing their kitchen round. I can't see this being any good for the tourist industry in France because of costs and can see loads of owners pulling out.

[Quillan]

I spoke to GDF this afternoon.

If one of your guests is taken ill and it can be traced back to you or if they complain because they are ill and they believe it is due to food served by you then you are correct that you can be inspected on health grounds. They have never heard of a third party complaint resulting in an inspection unless it's by a doctor who has treated a person suffering from food poison that he/she believes come from your establishment.

With regards to B&B's coming under the same regulations as a resteraunt, that they tell me is totally untrue. They even went away to check up and called me back especially after I told them I believe this ruling to be new. The answer was the same. They also said to me what I have already said here, more than 90% of all B&B's in France would have close immediately to have this work carried out and probably as many as half would never open again.

[rosiejayne]

Thank you very much for taking the trouble to find this out for me, very kind. 

I saw the letter that my neighbour wrote, I didn't actually read it, but saw her hand writing and address -she has definately caused the kind of S*** that she was after!!!  I can honestly say that I haven't poisoned anyone.

This is not the only thing that she has done to cause trouble!

In your opinion, do you think that I should carry out the works that have been requested, or stand my ground - using the "I dont' think there are any other Cdh's having to do this" stance?

Probably easier to just spend the money and do the work - and just wait for her next move - aaahhh.

RJ

[Quillan]

I have to say it does seem rather strange all this and I am not sure what to make of it. It' also rather difficult to give a reply because there is probably more to this than meets the eye.

 

A route I might suggest for you is to write a letter to you regional tourist board which is a government run department, ours is at the Consular Generals office. Tell them what you are doing, i.e. running a B&B and that you have been inspected and why and what you have been told by the inspectors. By that I mean that all B&B's, including yourself, that provide food, both breakfast and TDH must implement by law the same hygiene standards as a public restaurant. Also attach a copy of the letter you received after the inspection.

 

In the meantime I would suggest you consider joining one of the organisations I previously mentioned. I would base my decision on who to join by talking to your local tourist office and also what you want from either organisation. GDF are more expensive than Clévacances and give you much more exposure publicity wise particularly in other countries like the UK, Germany, America etc. They also look after their members interests better, well they do in my area.  As an example they could talk to the inspectors on your behalf or at least furnish you with a letter which you can forward on.

 

Paying 600€ odd to GDF might be a better long term investment than renovating you kitchen and buying extra equipment and not sleeping at night because you don’t know what your neighbour is going to come up with next. The French know what GDF is and by having their sign at your gate where your neighbour can clearly see it may stop her in her tracks.

Good luck and keep us posted.