Room Heights

[Jontefonte]

Just joined this forum, and found lots of useful info so far. We are in the process of looking for a house to buy in france as we want to run a B&B/small hotel.

Can anyone tell me what the regulation minimum height is from floor to ceiling for a hotel room? Several of the houses we are considering have attics for conversion but some have lowish beams but high pointed ceilings and not sure if we will be allowed to use this space for letting rooms. Although, we've stayed in attic hotel rooms with low beams before, so confused as to what regulations are (heard it had to be 1 metre 80, but is that to the beam or to the ceiling above?)

Any  help on this much appreciated!

Siobhan

[Clair]

As I understand it after an inspection visit from my gîte rating, it is the ceiling height at 1.80m which determines the living space (espace habitable). Beams protuding into that height are "only" considered as far as health

and safety are concerned (i.e. make sure your guests are aware of them).

I found that the best way to go about it was to measure a piece of string/rope to the right length, attach a weight to one end and walk around the room up to the right height, whilst someone else marked the relevant floor area.

There is a minimum square area allowed per person for a single, double or family room.

I seem to remember 8m2 per person for a single, add 3m2 for each extra person... but please don't quote me on this!

[Quillan]

As Clair has said there are minimum square meterage for the bedrooms but you should also be aware that the actual size effects the rating given for each bedroom by both Gite de France and Clevacances. The size is 10M2 excluding washbasin and toilet facilities but to get 3 epis (or keys for Clevacances) it need to be 14M2 and to be honest anything less than 3 is not really worth it (thats what GDF and Clevacances say, not me) as people seem to go for a minimum of 3. Don't forget the rating is per room not establishment so for instance we have a twin room which is cheap but only 9.8M2 and is not rated, all our other rooms are a minimum of a 3 rating. Of course the rest of the B&B facilities etc come in to the equation but it is the room that gets the rating. All these issues MUST be taken in to account when you buy your property for B&B as well as bathrooms etc, etc.

[Clair]

[quote user="Clair"]There is a minimum square area allowed per person for a single, double or family room.

I seem to remember 8m2 per person for a single, add 3m2 for each extra person... but please don't quote me on this![/quote]

Well I've finally found the "classement des meublés de tourisme" list given to me by the local tourist office last year (this is for gîte which are NOT registered with GdF or CV, as both these organisations operate their own rating systems).

Minimum space required in bedrooms per person excluding cupboards, wardrobes...

• 1* rating: 7m2 min
• 2* rating: 8m2
• 3* rating: 9m2
• 4* rating: 10m2
• 5* rating: 12m2

add 3m2 of living space for each extra person sleeping in the room.

This, of course, is the minimum space required to meet the relevant rating, independant of all other factors which also have a bearing on the rating.

[Anton Redman]

My second year French text book had a story of somebody escaping a prisoner of war ( WW1) by immitatting a hunchback/Bossu . This was long before Disney filmed 'Notre Dame de Paris'. as 'the Hunch Back of Notre Dame'  When I mentioned the word Bossu to the husband of the owner of the C de H he went in doors only for his Larouse to find the word. I hesitate to suggest getting rated for the rooms you have which meet the standards and sell failures/dregs to people who turn up at 8 o'clock in Februarey with the snow 10 cms deep.  

[Jontefonte]

Thank you both very much for this.

So does this mean that as long as a room has the minimum amount of space required per person (for example at least 10m2 for 4* rating) that is at least 1 metre 80 high from floor to ceiling - then this should meet regulations? And it doesn't matter if the rest of the room (the edges in an attic room for example) are lower?

Any further thoughts appreciated... we are house hunting next week and all the houses have attics to convert and the space will be crucial to how many rooms we can have.

I'm a bit fixated with this at the moment.

Siobhan

[Clair]

[quote user="Jontefonte"]Does this mean that as long as a room has the minimum amount of space required per person (for example at least 10m2 for 4* rating) that is at least 1 metre 80 high from floor to ceiling - then this should meet regulations? And it doesn't matter if the rest of the room (the edges in an attic room for example) are lower?[/quote]

That's right,as far as I am aware. although I do not know about B&Bs, GdF or CV rules.

I have 3 attic bedrooms in the gîte (meublé de vacances indépendant). All have sloping ceilings and beams. The standing area (1.80m height) allows me to call 2 bedrooms doubles and the smaller one single and I have been assessed accordingly.

Bear in mind this is only one aspect of the rating. Even if all your bedrooms meet or exceed the relevant minimum standard, your rating will be according to an overall view of the property, which includes surroundings, property amenities according to the number of guests, funiture, furnishings... and the mood of the person who is doing the viewing!

[Cassis]

[quote user="Jontefonte"]So does this mean that as long as a room has the minimum amount of space required per person (for example at least 10m2 for 4* rating) that is at least 1 metre 80 high from floor to ceiling - then this should meet regulations? And it doesn't matter if the rest of the room (the edges in an attic room for example) are lower?[/quote]

As Clair said, Gites de France and Clevacances B&B requirements are different - in fact it seems that they are easier, compared to Clair's local board guidelines per person.  E.g. for a double room GdF and Clevacences both require min. 12m2 with a headroom min 1.8m floor to ceiling for a 3 Epis or Cles (star) rating.  Parts of the room with less headroom do not count towards the surface area.  For 4 stars with these organisations you need 18m2, if memory serves.  All this excludes the en-suite facilities, 3m2 or 4m2, also needed for 3-4 star ratings.  If you go to the Gites de France website (French pages) there is a downloadable pdf document which specifies room sizes, bathroom sizes, shower sizes, bed sizes, equipment etc. required for each rating.  GdF and Clevacances requiremnents are virtually identical.  If you are going to apply for a grant from your Conseil General you may need provisional rating from GdF or Clevacances based on your plans.  Depends on your departement, but the Sarthe for instance gives a grant of 30% on building works for developing tourist bedrooms up a max to 2,600 euros per room.

Hope you find somewhere suitable - good luck.

Phil

[Quillan]

You are 100% correct on that. I think the other sizes are given by the local tourist office rather than an approved, govenment run, organisation. Don't forget that 10M2 is a room 3.12M X 3.12M (thats 3 big steps/strides) which is pretty small for 4* accomodation considering one has to get a table, minimum of two chairs, chest of draws, case stand, bedside tables and a wardrobe in, where does one swing the cat? Even 18M2 is a bit small but then they are absolutly the minimum sizes.