template for gite / B&B business plan

[searcher30]

where can we find a template for a gite/b&b business plan . we may need this to show the bank to get a mortgage/loan to do house up . thanks in advance

[Quillan]

Why not contact either Gite de France or Clévacances you might get a grant via your prefecture and office of tourism.

[Daley]

    Hi

I am currently planning to move to France in 3 years time to start myself up in a B&B amongst other things. I have started my business plan of which is in a very draft form, but I do have three years to get it right.  I am prepared to share this with you if you like.  My background is in Hospitality and Services, so I do have some idea, but obviously I have not been to the bank with it yet. Let me know if you want a copy, it's in excel and word.

dalejephson@yahoo.de

Regards

Dale

[Dick Smith]

I got a business plan CD-ROM from my bank...

[Quillan]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]I got a business plan CD-ROM from my bank...
[/quote]

Does it factor in all the stuff for a B&B in France?

[Miki]

This might seeem harsh but I NEVER, ever recommend anyone to take a

mortgage out on a  Bed and Breakfast and if one really has to and

manages some how to get one, then be prepared to walk the extremely

dodgy tightrope of financial insecurity.

Taking a plan to the bank manager may work in a thousand to one cases

but he will know your figures, especially if adjusted to suit a credit

application, will not stand up in most cases.

The manager will be more interested in any salary coming in, than in

any possible projected sums for a Bed and Breakfast. They are still

seen by the professional people as "amateur" status, as are gites, if a

gite complex has previously declared chiffres, then there is a chance

based on the percentage required etc but a none up and running B&B,

without any turnover to show, sorry, that will be a tough one to get

credit on.

[Dick Smith]

It was pretty basic, and you could tailor it to suit your needs. In my case the proposition made no sense when analysed, so I dropped it. I should think you could factor in all sorts of things - whether or not they would be true or not is the problem!

[Quillan]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]It was pretty basic, and you could tailor it to suit your needs. In my case the proposition made no sense when analysed, so I dropped it. I should think you could factor in all sorts of things - whether or not they would be true or not is the problem!
[/quote]

To be honest Dick if you are going to start a business and you don't know how to create a business plan and have to rely on a bank to give you one to complete on a CD then just don't go in to business because you would not know enough to make it work. Do they also give you a Profit and Loss sheet, do they explain basic accounting like keeping a day book, budget managment etc? Probably not, they turn out these things and to be honest most of the time they are useless.

[Dick Smith]

Cheers Quillan. Nice to get a kicking for trying to answer a question.

I have not added several sentences to this post, but I wanted to. Summary execution now for answering back to a modulator.

[Owens88]

I'd delete this post if I could. The next one supercedes this.

 (I would have said 'takes its place' but a long word now and then doesn't hurt)

[Owens88]

Hey guys don't fall out.

Quillan spoke with unforked tongue I think.

My reaction to the original question was b***** cheek.  But perhaps I better explain why. The business plan summarises the ideas and the thinking,   ---   dealing with the what ifs and the 'oh my god! s' amongst other things .

Any template is only a way of structuring the words (or the numbers) .Even Microsoft give out basic templates for the documents. They are not a template for a Business Plan per se.

(o.k. that sounded pompous, and is, but Business Plans are a large party of my day job and I rescue a lot of people who start off thinking they are doing a 'colour in the spaces' exercise for the bank ).

Quillan may not have expressed it with custard on top but his gist was broadly correct - one has to manage for profit and to stay liquid and legal. Often the three are confused (or simplified because 'we don't need all that hassle do we ?')

 

Perhaps the OP might have had more sympathy if he said something like' I've factored this lot in, what have I missed ?

Editted as afterhought.. In fact doesn't one have to go through some course to be accepted as being 'in business' in France ?

Cheers anyway.

[Dick Smith]

I thought I had made my misgivings clear, but then not everybody reads posts before responding to them. However, it is true to say that the plan I had (actually was given by someone who wanted us to work in partnership) made so little sense that it was clear in minutes when responding to the basic questions on the template. But I was being honest and analytical about it.

I wonder where 'Searcher 30' has gone again - these questions drop out of the blue and that's it, it seems.

[Quillan]

Dick, it's not you personally but a lot of people do seem to think that by filling in one of these business plans from the bank their business is going to be a great success (must be the bloke down the bank never said a word when I handed it in). The problem is that if you don't understand the basic priciples in the first place a business plan can tell you what you want to be told. Usually the ones from Banks go up to 3 years which is a critical time in business because after that all sorts of things happen not least the capital write down of assets starts (unless the laws have changed in the last 4 years).

Another thing I have noticed (well in the case of my Business Manager at Nat West - the ad always makes me laugh) is that he took absolutly no interest in it at all when I scurried along with my still hot certificate from Companies House and Memorandum to open account, it was more like 'give us your money quick'.

If you want to start a business in the UK there are now quite a few repuable companies that do one or two day courses and whilst they run out at a couple of hundred pounds or so they really are worth their money and can save you thousands in the future. Not only that but they have industry specific templates which are much more useful.

This bit is for you Dick - You need to be able to understand a business plan after it's been completed (no slight on you personally) but they can be made to make the viability of a company look good or bad. In fact anything in business can. An example of this was when we answered a tender to install SIMS (Schools Information Management System) in to all the schools in Islington. We answered the tender honestly but never mentioned we had no idea what the program was, we talked it up here and down there. We won the contract, after 3 months we wish we haddened, it was at the time (1998) the worst bit of software I had ever come across from a technical point of view and was a nightmare to install on a network BUT the schools loved it, it did exactly what it said on the box. I wonder if they are still working at Crown Woods?

[Quillan]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]I have not added several sentences to this post, but I wanted to. Summary execution now for answering back to a modulator.
[/quote]

Go stand in the corner for 5 minutes, face pointing in and wear a funny hat, you can do it in the photo copier room so the kids won't take the micky, there see how kind I am.

[Miki]

[quote user="Quillan"]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]I have not added

several sentences to this post, but I wanted to. Summary execution now

for answering back to a modulator.

[/quote]

Go stand in the corner for 5 minutes, face pointing in and wear a

funny hat, you can do it in the photo copier room so the kids won't

take the micky, there see how kind I am.

[/quote]

Glasshouses come in to mind here Quillan, Dick has been misread here

and on the Finance thread, this pretty poor advice has not seen an

apology to date,

either.

Who was this :

Bank Populair do some as well however none of them get round paying CDS on the interest, nothing escapes CDS.

And a few soon posted to put that to bed eh ! I was going to

correct it but after a previous pathetic accusation of stalking, it

kind of worried me a bit ! but as ever, the

old adage of less said soonest forgotten eh........... and so it

goes..................

A Mod giving out totally wrong advice, not good eh, leave uncertain

French financial matters to people like Leslauriers, much safer.

[Russethouse]

Firstly I'm amazed we have a business at all after reading this - I have NEVER filled out a business plan, and yes we do have a business loan ! (but then I am in the UK )

Secondly -Like another poster on this thread I wonder what happens to 'Searcher' after they have asked the question - they rarely seem to post twice in the same thread, which apart from anything else, makes it difficult for others to really help.

Thirdly - I think that established members know that when a mod answers to this sort of post they not 'using' their mod status in anyway. They make it clear when they are.

[Miki]

Thirdly - I think that established members know that when a

mod answers to this sort of post they not 'using' their mod status in

anyway. They make it clear when they are.

So what are you saying ? Are you implying that with the Mod hat on, their mental ability and thus knowledge is more advanced and without Mod hat on, members may well recieve a dodgy answer ?

[Dick Smith]

Actually, Chris, I was pretty hacked off by your post, which I thought was unnecessary and didn't show any understanding of what I had written. To then make a puerile joke instead of an apology doesn't exactly help. Especially when from a 'moderator'.

Still, I know where I stand now, and presumably sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

[Quillan]

Sorry Dick after following your posts over the last few days I was just answering in the same general style.

Miki, I was not aware that we moderators were experts until you told us, quite frankly I never thought we were so thank you for that elevation, you must be about the only one who thinks we are. Whats all this on and on stuff not a battery called Duracell by any chance. Oh yes I didn't answer in the other thread because any fool could see I was wrong. What do I need to appologise for, I really don't understand, something to do with a Harem?

[Owens88]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

Firstly I'm amazed we have a business at all after reading this - I have NEVER filled out a business plan, and yes we do have a business loan ! (but then I am in the UK )

[/quote]

I think that validates my earlier point, and I am an accreditted professional Business Planner. The document (especially the spreadsheet) is NOT the plan, however having a document does make it easier to communicate the plan.

In fact we used to have a rule of thumb that the best business plans were summarised first on a very special document. Warning, Trade Secret emerging....

First take your beer mat (and if there isn't one to hand do check whether you are in the correct environment for Business Planning ).

Separate it ('de-laminate' it for the technically minded) so that you now have 2 beer-mat sized sheets of plain writing area.

Get the key ideas down on those sheets (diagrams help). Overflow onto another set if you want to allocate actions and write minutes. You may use a third set of you have a LOT of key ideas to write.

You may scrap the plans and re-start. Sometimes a pause is called for (there is a helpful  technique involving 'Getting another round in' in Britain, but in France the rounds come to you so you may have to be creative about how to pause for thought).

Read next day (at home and in the office) and see if the ideas still work. If so do write-up and spread-sheet then check again. If not, consider another 'meeting' .

Good luck

 

[Beryl]

I was advised to complete a business plan etc when I was hoping to turn my hobby into a proper business. It was useful because it did give me an idea of just of much work and effort I was going to have to put in if I wanted to make a decent profit. I suppose with all things, it depends how honest you are going to be with yourself, when you fill these things in, but I erred on the side of caution and then having seen the end figures, decided against it.

[Miki]

[quote user="Quillan"]

Sorry Dick after following your posts over the last few days I was just answering in the same general style.

Miki, I was not aware that we moderators were experts until you told

us, quite frankly I never thought we were so thank you for that

elevation, you must be about the only one who thinks we are. Whats all

this on and on stuff not a battery called Duracell by any chance. Oh

yes I didn't answer in the other thread because any fool could see

I was wrong. What do I need to appologise for, I really don't

understand, something to do with a Harem?

[/quote]

Don't thank me for elevating you anywhere, where does it state anything about me saying Mods are experts ?

Are you reading this, as you are an expert ?

 Are you implying that with the Mod hat on, their mental ability and thus knowledge is more advanced

Sorry but the advancement from zilch, is till zilch in my book 

You really ought not to quote these things that you cannot back up, you

are not only getting answers wrong but reading something in to what is

not even there !

When one gives completely wrong answers, it might be nice to tell the

person you replied to (in that particular case 100% wrong), that you

made a chancey guess and it was an error but no, you stayed quiet, as

you say, even fools could see it was wrong. The fool surely being the chancer who

gave the completely wrong response.

[Quillan]

Are you implying that with the Mod hat on, their mental ability and thus knowledge is more advanced

Sorry but the advancement from zilch, is till zilch in my book  You really ought not to quote these things that you cannot back up, you are not only getting answers wrong but reading something in to what is not even there

 

Now come on your confusing your self here this is your quote from about 5 posts up.

You keep refering to us moderators as experts or is it just me in particular, nobody ever said we were exept you and it's your posts that keeps having this word expert in them.

I guess I need to make it quite clear that moderators have no special knowledge that puts them above anyone else in this forum not even you Miki and unless we have indicated otherwise (by our 'hat on/off' phrase) we are just the same as every one else.

If you are using the word zilch as slang for zero then anything that advances from 'zilch' has to be a positive thats basic maths. Now I'm not going to post on this particular subject anymore because I expect I shall get told off for going off subject but I know you will be itching to have the last word or imply I have lost (although I am not sure what the contest is) and you have won so I really don't mind, you go ahead and have your last word.

[Miki]

If you are using the word zilch as slang for zero then anything that

advances from 'zilch' has to be a positive thats basic maths. Now I'm

not going to post on this particular subject anymore because I expect I

shall get told off for going off subject but I know you will be itching

to have the last word or imply I have lost (although I am not sure what

the contest is) and you have won so I really don't mind, you go ahead

and have your last word.

Not so much a last word, more a plea for a translation ! If that made

any sense to you, well bravo, because to me it was, as it is all too often, Quillan speaking

total b*****s

You keep referring to us moderators as experts or is it just me in particular

Come, come Quillan, all you have to do is show me where I said

Mods were experts, don't simply blabber off with simply guessing about anything, you

have been rather too good at that on here.  I can't see it, so

where have you supposedly seen where I say Mods are experts, if you can't find it, then keep your pathetic jibes to yourself and try sticking to the facts.

As you say it's "off topic" and strangely enough, it was you who in the

last contretemps, who made a big point of it by cutting off the debate...oh

of course, it's a Mod hat on and off episode again. What a lovely

phrase to hide behind, is there one us poor lowly members can use when

we make little errors? Titfer on, titfer off perhaps. Mmm that' ll do, as good an excuse as anything else to do as the Mods do.

"....but I know you will be itching to have the last word or imply I have

lost (although I am not sure what the contest is) and you have won"

That part takes some beating, why ? Well it argued with itself and

still lost  !!  No need to prove sod all with some one who

bizarrely posts the above, as well as making uneducated replies to Q's

and if it's wrong, so what, as long as the Mod hats off

[Viv]

You really are the most unpleasant character aren't you?

Does running a B and B stress you out that much that you have to be extremely rude and obnoxious to any one who dares to disagree with you?

If you don't mean to come accross in this manner, why not just adapt your tone slightly so as not to come accross in such a belligerent manner ? This should get the harem out in support again!

Ps I think the quote that you are attributing to Quillan actually came from Russethouse, so perhaps you should try and get your facts straight!