Dinner - what shall I reply?

[Cerise]

I have a booking for a party of 4 in a couple of weeks time.  When I confirmed the booking as usual I asked if they wanted me to book a restaurant for them or required table d'hôte for the evening of arrival.  Got a quite strange reply asking me to send several different menus so they could make up their minds.  Below is part of my reply.

With table d'hôtes there is not a menu  (we are not  licensed as a restaurant)  Table d'hôtes is a one sitting - all at the same table - meal - 4 courses.  The actual evening's menu rather depends on the number of people staying,any individual dietary requirements and what is fresh on the market - we are over 25 miles from large supermarket!.  Sample menus (from recent weeks)

 

Stuffed Peppers                                                                            Scallop Terrine

Roast Lamb with  Potato Gratin and Ratatouille                             Boeuf Bourguignon with rice and green

Selection of local cheeses                                                              beans

Chocolate & brandy mousse                                                          Selection of local cheeses

                                                                                                     Strawberry Pavlova

 

Aperitif, wine and coffee are included in the price which is 20 euros per head.

 

I then asked if they still wanted a meal and if anyone was vegetarian.  After a couple of weeks of silence back came the following

 

Hello Maggi, 2 of the party say they will eat whatever you choose, ***** does not like fish but will eat anything else.
Those 3 are not your problem, I am, I do not eat a whole host of things, but I will eat Steak,Chicken and most kinds of Fish, so to make it easy for you I would like Steak and fries (chips) with no sauces and I will eat most kinds of desserts but not many starters.
Told you I was your problem.

Now my inclination is to not wish to cook for this lot at all.  On the evening in question we have 3 other guests so I will be cooking for 9 adults in total.  Steak and chips is something I just don't feature because of the difficulty of cooking 9 steaks properly to everybody's individual tastes in what is after all my domestic kitchen (we are not a restaurant) and frankly I think the guy sounds like a pain.  However, I also feel that if I refuse them a meal on their first evening it will get us all off to a bad start.  We are also very rural and (strange but true) I can't always rely on local butchers to have the thing that I plan to cook they may say 'No haven't got 9 nice steaks' more the other way round I cook what they have.  Took some getting used to that, but I am used to it and to date hasn't caused a problem.

These people obviously don't understand the service we offer, so if you were me would you reply to the above?   I feel absolutely worn out at the moment (and it's only 7.00 am) so while I pop off to serve breakfast to the ravenous hordes perhaps one of you literary lot can tell me a polite way of saying that we are not the Ritz or a restaurant.

Thanks

 

Maggi

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

[Dick Smith]

I sympathise.

I once stayed at a B&B which was recommended mostly for its food - which was superb. The owner asked me to help him make sense of a fax he had received from some English guests due to stay the next week saying that they only ate 'dry food'. In the end we decided that they meant no sauces, but in which case why on earth choose such a place to stop?

I think I would tell them again what table d'hôte means, and try to plan a meal which is a slab of meat and veg with a separate sauce if they want it. How about roast chicken? That seems to cover all of them.

Mind you, I can't stand food faddies, and as you say this bloke sounds like a pain. I wonder what else he will want done differently, just for him? (Probably like his mum used to do).

[Catalpa]

First of all, Maggi, I like your menus [:D]

Contemplation of this booking may make it seem more problematic than it will turn out to be.

They don't clearly get the table d'h thing but then, in general terms, don't you find a lot of people have a fuzzy understanding of the original concept? Particularly British people, I suspect, who are more and more used to a service culture being happy to fine-tune services to their desires.

He knows he's a problem but he admits that up front - and that he probably won't eat starters but will eat most puddings.  

He has tried to solve your problem by requesting steak or chicken which he probably thinks is simple for you. It isn't but he probably didn't realise that in making the suggestion.

You can't put fish on the menu because one of them doesn't like it; you need a piece of unadorned chicken (or possibly another meat) for him.

So you could explain (again?) that steak may not be on the menu due to not knowing whether good, local produce will be available on the day - and the difficulty in turning out 9 perfectly cooked from your family kitchen. But you can guarantee that a plain meat will be available - such as chicken (which he will eat) - and to please tell you if, say, lamb or pork is also acceptable. If you emphasise the fact you're a family business serving good quality meals from a family kitchen in an informal environment and you are keen to ensure - within the parameters of cooking for 8 other people - that he enjoys his stay, you should still be able to stick with your normal style of cooking. You don't need to reduce the price of his meal because you won't be able to guarantee that he won't eat a starter and pudding so they'll have to be prepared I assume? If he chooses not to, you could offer the spare to another member of his party?

Could you phone him? You might feel better about the booking if you've discussed it with him over the phone and then you could confirm whatever you agree by email.

He sounds faddy... but to a degree you can probably accommodate? He sounds easier to accommodate than a vegetarian to me! And all vegetarians who've just slammed the "reply" button to castigate me for my view, please do it by pm and leave Maggi's thread to proceed unmolested. [:P]

 

[Pads]

Hello Maggi

I think Dick has said it all really, but as a chef for many years I have found that a lot of people are scared of trying anything new, with this lot I would go for something based on a sunday roast chicken dinner and I dont think you will go wrong and start with a soup . Its a shame for the other guest who probaly have come to france to try local dishes, but maybe with the starter of soup as it is so easy you could offer some else more exciting and just tell this party there is soup if they would prefer it. I dont think the letter needs a reply, He has said they will all eat chicken, and its your job to pick the menu not his.If you make him steak and chips he will think he can tell you what else he wants his way all week, nip him in the bud now!!!!  

[Cassis]

Don't forget to lie down in the doorway for them to wipe their feet on you!  Otherwise it's all been said above ...

[Coco]

I've had similar requests in the past Maggi.  People have asked to see the menu and I have done exactly as you did.  I have explained how TDH works and sent samples of menus.  People always read or hear what they want to, so still write back and say, oh yes, that sounds lovely, we'd like the smoked salmon starter, the duck for main and the mixed fruit tart for dessert (which would totally blow my budget, picking the more expensive selections from each course!)  I then have to write back again and explain that we are not a restaurant, buying in bulk at discount prices, that we have a budget that is hard enough to keep to and, like you, we have to buy what is available on the day, not the other way round.  I offer to keep as close to their wishes as possible but can't guarantee it, and then leave the ball in their court for them to decide whether they want dinner or not.

We once had a group of Australians staying who did a similar thing and the party organiser then added that he would like me to take into account that he was diabetic.  On this occasion I decided that I was not going to make decisions about his meal when medical conditions were involved, so I did send them a choice of 4 starters, mains and desserts and told him to choose which they wanted but to bear in mind that all of them would have to have the same.  Of course, they all chose different things, so I had to write back again to tremind them how it worked and to all choose the same dishes.  That was two years ago and I've had Christmas cards from all of them for the last two Christmases, saying they still remember their wonderful stay with us and how accommodating we were - and yet at the time I was worried that they wouldn't like my attitude, after having to tell them twice that they had to have the same things.

I don't know how you work out your costings, but apart from anything else I couldn't afford to serve up steaks as a main course if I was doing a 4 course meal and stick within the budget!

PS  Letting the Aussies choose their own menu led to a very RED meal, even with a choice of 4 for each course:  tomato and roasted pepper soup, followed by chicken in tomatoes, olives and peppers, cheese and strawberry tart!!!! [:P]

[Cjlaws]

Well said by those who've posted above. You asked for a suggested reply.

Maybe some or all of this would be useful:

 

 

"I don’t think I explained the table d’hôtes well enough. It is a is a meal which is shared by all the guests eating with us that evening. The actual menu will depend on produce available locally on the day and the number of guests eating that evening. The menus I sent you were examples of the sort of food we provide, not actual choices. Since we are not licensed as a restaurant we cannot offer alternative dishes.

As your party seem to have differing tastes, perhaps it’s best that I book you a table at a local restaurant."

Hope that helps.

[Miki]

[quote user="Cjlaws"]

Well said by those who've posted above. You asked for a suggested reply.

Maybe some or all of this would be useful:

"I don’t think I explained the table d’hôtes well enough. It is a is a

meal which is shared by all the guests eating with us that evening. The

actual menu will depend on produce available locally on the day and the

number of guests eating that evening. The menus I sent you were

examples of the sort of food we provide, not actual choices. Since we

are not licensed as a restaurant we cannot offer alternative dishes.

As your party seem to have differing tastes, perhaps it’s best that I book you a table at a local restaurant."

Hope that helps. [/quote]

I have to say, that is exactly the  sort of reply we offer to such requests these days.

Who remembers when we had a similar post a while back and some of us

said then,  that the worst guests are all too often the ones that

email all the time and want to know this that and the other. Experience

tells us when to decline and when to explain.

The same thing when guests ask if their 3 kids can eat at 6 p.m and

want three different meals, as that is what they have at home. They

will then put them to bed and come down at 8.30 p.m for their

dinner.....We tell them quite politely, that McDonalds is less than 10

minutes away as are several restos but here, we all sit down at the

same time  around 7.30 p.m and that French

children eat smaller versions of the parents menu (not always strictly

true but close to the truth !!)

By the way, this same question come up on a French B&B forum a little while back and the answers were

basically the same. Tell the guests to find a resto or take a chance on

what is being cooked that day. Thye were laughing at one post, which

asked if the person was cooking a certain dish two months before the

family were arriving at the said Cd'hôte !

Another thing which seems to becoming de rigeur amongst the French

folks, is having 2 nights without meals. It is hard work is it not ?

And working 7 days a week and 16 hours per day on occasion, who doesn't

love that evening when no one is eating ? So imagine having 2 (even one

!) night guaranteed no evening work every week. We have discussed this

at great length and we think that very soon we may well implement this.

[ali-cat]

I think Cjlaws suggestion is a very good starting place, for the reply.  But offer the chicken (as suggested by Dick, as it covers all of them) & if that is not suitable - then the local restaurant booking offer.

Don't try to satisfy everyones individual tastes - if they all eat chicken - give it to them & they should all be very happy.  Serve any sauces in a seperate dish & let them choose to have it, if they want.  Nobody could find any fault with that. 

Good luck [:D]

[Russethouse]

 Its all very well but hopefully you will have other guests who may like to try something more exciting than roast chicken! Isn't part of the joy of a holiday trying different, perhaps regional fare ?

I think offering to contact a  restaurant and possibly sorting out the number of a taxi company would suit everyone, them, you and your other guests, best. Although its a shame to lose the 'profit' element. How long are they staying ?

Good Luck with them.............

[ali-cat]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

 Its all very well but hopefully you will have other guests who may like to try something more exciting than roast chicken! Isn't part of the joy of a holiday trying different, perhaps regional fare ?

[/quote]

I know excactly what you mean - Mark will go out of his way to eat local & different meals - but how many UK visitors are willing to eat anything outside of their usual fare?  It certainly explians why the "English Pub Grub" places stay in business!!  Uck!!

[zeb]

This reminds me of my father in law who first came to stay here around four years ago. MIL told us that he only eats very plain "English" food and couldn't eat anything fancy or spicy. Her words.

Anyway, he got very plain English food (nothing difficult - a chicken leg or pork chop with veg) whilst the rest of us tucked into delicious meats, sauces, gratins, paellas etc. His plain diet lasted 2 evenings, then he said that he thought he'd like to try the same as the rest of us, and also decided to try wine (after telling us all that it was pretentous and horrible!). He loved it all and when they got back to UK he started trying all sorts of different foods.

My advice would be not to upset them, or make it difficult for yourself. Serve tomato and mozerella, or garlicy eggs on tomatoes as a starter in a large bowl, then chicken breasts stuffed with blue cheese (or with a white mushroom sauce), fresh mixed veg and new potatoes, or something similar. Then a strawberry flan and cream dessert after the cheese course.

Give him the plain chicken breast (tell him your chip fryer has broken) and see what else he helps himself to!!

[Dick Smith]

I've seen the same thing so many times on school journeys. Kids who claim to be vegetarians (they expect veggieburgers and Linda Macartney pap) and then start taking the meat meals - often to the extreme annoyance of others! I've even seen teachers do that...

I like the idea of a plain chicken breast cooked alongside more interesting ones.

I once knew a man who would only eat boiled chicken and drink Tizer - but he was a deputy head, so mental stability wasn't a prerequisite.

[Cerise]

Thanks everyone for your replies.  Reading my own post I seem quite pathetic, but I have had 10 days of non-stop cooking (14 for a barbecue tonight) and we have family as well as a house full of guests so am just tired and this bloke seemed like the last straw.  Have regained a bit of commonsense during the day and will take catalpa's advice and phone him.  Then I think I can judge if he really is a pain or just not too good at expressing himself in e-mails.  CJL I like your reply it is polite but no nonsense so will try that if the phone call is not a success.

Miki - we have tried taking Sunday's off this year and it seems to work.  This Sunday we had a solitary (widowed) guest who seemed uncomfortable about going out to eat alone (the remainder of the guests were a christening party who were being entertained elsewhere) so we took her with us when we went out to dinner which was just fine.  I am offering to book restaurants and make recommendations for everyone for Sundays and am going to try it this year as last year I was exhausted by October and never wanted to see another morsel of food again.  We don't get too many Sunday arrivals so am hoping I can keep up an occasional night off.

Just off to marinate something (guest perhaps?[:)])

Thanks again

Maggi

[Miki]

Maggi,

From a client service point of view, we can't really avoid cooking on a

Sunday, as that is the one night that the 3 local restos shut

themselves.

We are seriously thinking of Fri/Sat, there is a choice of at least

150  plus restos within 15-20 minutes, so no problem there but at a

meeting some 5 years ago now, it was shown that mnay table d'hotes, can

normally expect to get over twice (or more) enquiries (and perhaps

reservations) as the normal c.d'hôte.  This figure will naturally

depend on the competetion and area, but certainly holds up in our

immediate area.

So I guess the bottom line, I guess is stopping Td'hôte on those nights

and see what happens. It's not the profit from the food that is the

real motivator but the number of rooms booked because of one offering

evening meals. If we were to keep our reservations similar, then

any profit lost on the meals has to be set against a better life style

and to our minds, it may very well be worth every centime lost.

[Cassis]

We were concerned about this when we were looking for a place to set up so we made sure there would be a restaurant within walking distance - the thought of making evening meals just seemed unbearable, like we would never get any time to ourselves and we would become 24 hour slaves to the business.  The local restaurant is cheap, honest and good food.  There is another one, fabulous food decor, under 10 mins by car, open on Sunday evening which is unusal, so that fills in on the Sunday night when the local is shut.  Plus there are about 20 others at Alençon 10 mins away.  I really take my hat off to everyone who does evening meals - we just couldn't face the restrictions it would put on us as the owners.

Phil

[Coco]

[quote user="Miki"]Maggi,

From a client service point of view, we can't really avoid cooking on a Sunday, as that is the one night that the 3 local restos shut themselves.
Same for us - Sunday and Monday are two nights we would really HAVE to cook.

We are seriously thinking of Fri/Sat, there is a choice of at least 150  plus restos within 15-20 minutes, so no problem there but at a meeting some 5 years ago now, it was shown that many table d'hotes, can normally expect to get over twice (or more) enquiries (and perhaps reservations) as the normal c.d'hôte.  This figure will naturally depend on the competetion and area, but certainly holds up in our immediate area.

And ours.  Out local tourist Office was delighted that we offer TDH and certainly amongst French guests it seems to be almost compulsory, no TH, no booking!!

So I guess the bottom line, I guess is stopping Td'hôte on those nights and see what happens. It's not the profit from the food that is the real motivator but the number of rooms booked because of one offering evening meals.

Absolutely, that's why I made the comment about not serving steak for fear of breaking the budget.  I think it's tight enough anyway and if you work out your hourly rate from the profit then it's well below SMIC.  It's just that there are so many bookings that require TDH in order to get the reservation.

[/quote]

I'm with Maggi though, by October I never want to see another camembert sauce, gratin dauphinois or chocolate mousse again.  It's just curry followed by chilli, followed by curry, followed by pasta, followed by curry......

[Miki]

[quote]I'm with Maggi though, by October I never want to see another camembert

sauce, gratin dauphinois or chocolate mousse again.  It's just

curry followed by chilli, followed by curry, followed by pasta,

followed by curry.....[/quote]

Not sure about seeing another camembert

sauce etc but by mid Novemeber (we shut a few days after Armistice) we don't want to see another guest for a long time !!

I am fascinated by how many people book for TdH, as it is not something

we ourselves search out. Maybe as we work in one all year (well apart

for our séjourn) we normally search out a hotel to take out our hard

year on but we will often book a B&B if in town, as in Bayeux and

Carcassonne in the last year.

It's the driving I guess, people simply don't want to go out again after a long day out, visiting here and there during the day.

[Cerise]

After last night's barbecue decided I will become one of those nomadic yogi monks who never cook or eat[:)]

I think many people book the table d'hôtes option as it is a fixed budget.  When you go to a restaurant, even if you have a menu, by the time you have added aperitif, wine, coffee etc your bill is not a known quantity, whereas with t d'h it is.  Would go along with the comments about the French as all of them seem to expect it.  We actually live 100 metres from a really nice restaurant and I always offer to book restaurants - have no real desire to cook every night.  When we started we thought meals would be occasional, for those who were tired after a long journey for example.  This has not turned out to be so and we cook several nights most weeks.

St Amour - curry, chilli, beans on toast, take away pizza and absolutely no magret de blasted canard in sauce ever again!![:D]

 

Maggi

 

 

 

[Pip]

I am fascinated by how many people book for TdH, as it is not something we ourselves search out. (Miki)

Before we met my OH always stayed at TdHs so I asked him this question.  His reply was that he enjoyed sitting down for a meal with the families and other guests and he met some wonderful people of all nationalities.  Plus the food was always superb and often far better than he would get in a restaurant.

Together we now always go self-catering.  Mainly because |I used to work in a family run hotel kitchen and watched my dear bosses wilt after running around like headless chickens throughout the season.  Also I would hate to feel like an encumbrance as a guest - just provide me with somewhere to lay my head and a shower room and I'm happy  [:D]

[Coco]

[quote user="Pip"]

Before we met my OH always stayed at TdHs so I asked him this question.  His reply was that he enjoyed sitting down for a meal with the families and other guests and he met some wonderful people of all nationalities.  [/quote]

I may moan about doing it by August/September and I may be sick to death of my own food but I agree with your husband, in reverse.  We really enjoy the company of many of our guests (only an odd few have been a pain - and they were very odd)  This year has been even more interesting than normal, as so far we have only had one set of Brits joining us for dinner, the others have all been from far flung places around the world.  Our most interesting were here last Saturday and in fact are coming back tonight (tonight's B&B having let them down!!!)  They are from Alaska and to hear about his hunting trips in the Arctic Circle for moose was absolutely fascinating.  They were easy to please, they said as long as they didn't get salmon or moose they were happy!!! [:D]

[Wendy]

Cerise, guests like that really get me going. Just tell them that the menu is not open to negotiation. Recommend several restaurants and leave them to it. I have found that once you start giving them options they start fussing. They'll have you running around the kitchen like crazy too.

[P]

Maggi

You could always try to get him a similar steak to the one that Yve and I had a few weeks ago in France. We rarely eat the same thing in a restaurant and on this occassion we had steak. Next day were we bad - that would teach him.

Yve is a very fussy eater but she always maintains and practices 'put it down in front of me and if I do not eat it I will leave it'. I.e. it is her problem not anyone elses.

Methinks you may have problems, not just on the food front.

Paul