Wendy Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Hi Cathy, there is no real 'link' to this story but it is in the French News, December edition, under 'Card Games' in the Consumer Problems page. It was Novotel in Orleans who asked the British guest for his personal info. Illegal. He is European and therefore not a 'foreigner' and so not required to comply. Any European guest in France must be treated as would a French guest be treated. Either way, this law is outdated. As I have stated earlier, our local police/gendarmes have never been round in four years to check on or collect this personal information on our guests. We simply do not ask for such details. Once a guest has checked out we destroy/shred their credit card details for their, and our security. One thing I would like to ask people like Quillan is this; what do you do with your guests personal information once you have handed it over to the authorities?. How do you store it?. How secure is it?. I would not like to know that our personal details were being stored in some stranger's computer for god-knows-how-long after we had left their premises. We book, we stay, we pay. That's all the owner needs to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Jura wrote "One thing I would like to ask people like Quillan is this; what do you do with your guests personal information once you have handed it over to the authorities?. How do you store it?. How secure is it?. I would not like to know that our personal details were being stored in some stranger's computer for god-knows-how-long after we had left their premises. We book, we stay, we pay. That's all the owner needs to know."Most businesses keep records of their customers. And for lots of legitimate and sensible reasons. I am sure that you would be happy if the hotel you might stay at knew who you were and contacted you to let you know they had found something you hadn't realised was missing. Or, on the other hand, someone stayed at your hotel and caused lots of damage. I have a feeling you would not be thinking "well, they booked, they stayed and they paid"...Mr and Mrs M Mouse, in cashDanny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 We keep only the booking info sent by them when they book ( name and credit card details, for the time they are here), or by the reservation system. After they have left and room is inspected and okayed we shred their CC details. We do not ask for passports or place of origin/birth. We have lost a valuable watch in an Etap room and contacted the hotel a couple of hours later...funny how the cleaners never seem to find anything[:@]We inspect our rooms during our guests checking out procedure (I inspect while he chats to them in the office). We do not do this in all cases but you do get to know when you need to do it. We only keep what the comptable needs for the taxes...not guests personal stuff...just booking sheet and receipts.We have had plenty of Mr and Mrs Mouse types who pay 'in cash'. Generally, they pay up front...no credit card confirmation prior = no room unless paid in full beforehand. We service the rooms daily to keep a check on any 'damage'. Don't worry about that[;-)].But who they are, or where they come from, or who they have come with, is none of my concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 We don't take credit cards other than via PayPal for deposits so we never have any banking/credit card details at all. All we have is a persons name, address, phone number and at times email address if they book by email.Who they are and were they are from is important not in regards to French law perhaps but for reasons of theft, health and accidents. I will give you a very good reason why.This year a guest came running in to our lounge to tell us she heard a terrible scream from the room next door followed by a sound of something falling over.We rushed to the room that was occupied by an American lady in her mid 40's. After banging on the door and receiving no reply we used the master key to enter the room only to find they lady collapsed on the floor in the bathroom, unconscious, in a very large pool of blood. I immediately phoned for an ambulance. I have to admit that most of my ability to speak or understand French seemed to have disappeared in a second and I couldn't understand what the pompiers were talking about.Fortunately we had two final year medical students staying and one was also studying 'medical French' because she was going to start work with Médecins Sans Frontièrs after her holiday and was not only able to give a description to the Pompiers but to do some checking of the collapsed woman who we had put in the recovery position as the blood was coming out of her mouth.Because we had her home address and phone number on record we were able to phone her home in America where her disgruntled husband answered the phone. After he had woken up properly we ascertained that she was receiving treatment for multiple stomach ulcers (why she flew in this condition is another issue) and it appeared that several of them had hemorrhaged hence the dramatic lose of blood. Two minutes latter the ambulance turned up (5 minutes from start of call, pretty good I thought), the husband had given us the phone number of the woman's doctor who we phoned straight away and with the student talking to the woman's doctor, translating in to French and telling the para-medic suitable treatment was given (including an IV drip) and the woman regained consciousness shortly after.Now I'm no doctor and I have no idea how close to death this woman was but there was about a bucket full of blood on my floor so I can only guess the situation was pretty bad. They took the woman to hospital and the student went with them (we never charged her for her stay because we could not have coped if she was not here). A week later the woman came back to collect her things and was very grateful.In my mind this is exactly the type of reason why you should know who is staying with you and where they come from because you never know whats round the corner and is this instance having such information may have played an important part in saving this woman's life.I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawny Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Sorry but I read that as one of "what are you doing running a place in France and not being able to do the simplest thing, like ringing a Doctor/Samu Pompiers when required " ? I have no idea how long you have been running your business in France, it would seem at least 3 years, less/more ? Surely, you must speak sufficient French to be able to call someone and comprehend what they are saying ? Imagine if the student(s) had not been there, the Woman may have possibly died ! In your case, I really would be more worried about my French, than getting names. Finding a name in this case would have been very simple. She would have had some ID, including a passport to let people know who she was. I believe you should take this incident as a warning, you are in France, you take French guests, you take their money, you have been lucky, now take lessons and quickly.I took the liberty of reading a few more posts, where you talk of speaking with French people, I don't wish to appear rude but is that possible or did they speak English ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 [quote user="shawny"]Sorry but I read that as one of "what are you doing running a place in France and not being able to do the simplest thing, like ringing a Doctor/Samu Pompiers when required " ? [/quote]But he did ring the Pompiers. I've have heard loads of people say the same thing...their French 'freezes' in an emergency or even just when they are trying to return some broken bit of tat to Auchan, if the staff are being stroppy.I still practice emergency questions and answers in my head but I have little doubt the same thing would happen to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 [quote user="shawny"]Sorry but I read that as one of "what are you doing running a place in France and not being able to do the simplest thing, like ringing a Doctor/Samu Pompiers when required " ? I have no idea how long you have been running your business in France, it would seem at least 3 years, less/more ? Surely, you must speak sufficient French to be able to call someone and comprehend what they are saying ? Imagine if the student(s) had not been there, the Woman may have possibly died ! In your case, I really would be more worried about my French, than getting names. Finding a name in this case would have been very simple. She would have had some ID, including a passport to let people know who she was. I believe you should take this incident as a warning, you are in France, you take French guests, you take their money, you have been lucky, now take lessons and quickly.I took the liberty of reading a few more posts, where you talk of speaking with French people, I don't wish to appear rude but is that possible or did they speak English ?[/quote]Well you are sort of right and sort of wrong.Firstly I did phone the Pompiers.Secondly I have taken French lessons, quite a few of them but still have problems with some more technical words like 'pulse' (pouls) and I was frightened of either misunderstanding or giving an incorrect description.Basically I panicked because I found the person and was on the phone talking to a Pompier all in less that 30 seconds. If the student had not been passing by I would have phoned 112.There is no guarantee that a passport will have the correct address or that it even has a phone number in it for next of kin and when time is of the essence as it was in this case you don't have the time to go round looking for documents.Yes I do have a lot of French friends and I talk in French with them but thats in normal day to day life and is conversational French. Also when I don't know a word I ask or look it up and then learn it. Also this was totally unexpected and I had never been in this sort of situation before in my own home. First aid wise I knew exactly what to do and that was no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawny Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 [quote] If the student had not been passing by I would have phoned 117.[/quote]Sorry but a fat lot of good that would have been. You have nothing to panic about now and you have offered the wrong number. Tresco, were they in business in France though, the people you spoke of were simply in a shop and that can happen, yes. That surely is the difference but if one runs a business in France and therefore deals with the French, as I am sure this person does, then surely it is reasonable to expect the patron to speak French sufficiently enough to handle anything that may arise ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 [quote user="shawny"]Tresco, were they in business in France though, the people you spoke of were simply in a shop and that can happen, yes. That surely is the difference but if one runs a business in France and therefore deals with the French, as I am sure this person does, then surely it is reasonable to expect the patron to speak French sufficiently enough to handle anything that may arise ?[/quote]It seems reasonable at first glance, Shawny, but even people speaking their mother tongue 'freeze' sometimes and can't communicate clearly, so it's understandable that it happens to us immigrants. It can happen to anyone, and I don't think it's reasonable to imply someone can't run a business because of it, though if I'm ever intending to stay at Quillans I might wear my 118 sweatshirt.[;-)]The people I was speaking of were different people, some were in emergency situations (chimney fire, nasty broken limb) the others were people who said it just happens 'out of the blue' eg as in the shop example, where they arrived home with their useless product thinking 'what the hell happened to my French? Beforehand I knew exactly what to say and what might be asked of me. Where did my French Gooooooo?'[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawny Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I am sorry but imagine going to, shall we say The Lake district and finding that it is run by Foreigners whose command of the language is bad, so bad, they cannot get you an ambulance, or manage the number or even worse, not know the right number to call when their language is not up to scratch. Come on and sorry to repeat it, if you run a business in any country, dealing with people who are from that country, it is surely important enough to be able to speak the language, at least sufficiently enough to be able to do something as simple as calling a Doctor or the Samu.Sorry again but I cannot go on the remise that if I was in the UK, I or other Brits would freeze an dnot know the words or understand what was being said, when calling a Doctor or Hospital.[quote]It can happen to anyone, and I don't think it's reasonable to imply someone can't run a business because of it, though if I'm ever intending to stay at Quillans I might wear my 118 sweatshirt.[;-)] [/quote][:D] [:D]Sure one can run several styles of business if one does not have the contact this person would be getting but contact face to face is different, I think you would agree. Again, you state that these people you mention, were NOT in business, surely a totally and compeletely different affair.Anyway, I think it now fair to say, that either the lessons are not working or there is a need to double them up (it is winter, so perhaps, slow down ?) so this kind of happening, remains just a one off nightmare scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Sorry it was a typing error I meant 112 the international bi-lingual emergency number.We have had other minor accidents in the past where a doctor has been summoned and it has not been a problem speaking in French. This was something else and yes lessons were learnt from what happened and precautions have been put in place so it will never be a problem in the future. I would suggest that unless you have taken a minimum of 'A' level French or a degree you too may not know words like stomach haemorrhage in French it is not the sort of word a French teacher will give you during a lesson.This is not the problem, the problem would have been if we could not have got hold of her husband and in turn her doctor, it would have taken longer to discover exactly what was wrong and how to treat her.Thanks Tresco glad I am not the only one that 'freezes' sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 It happens to lots of people, even using their mother tongue. When I was a first-aider we used to have a little card with things to remember to tell the emergency services printed on it. It's easy to be expert in a non-stressful situation, but if something awful happens, and we're not accustomed to dealing with situations like it on a regular basis, panic can often switch our brains into gibbering idiot mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 [quote user="shawny"]Sorry again but I cannot go on the remise that if I was in the UK, I or other Brits would freeze an dnot know the words or understand what was being said, when calling a Doctor or Hospital.[/quote]Come on Shawny. Youtube has plenty of incoherent/deranged callers to 999 (and similar). You're protesting too much![:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnolia Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 Dear me, you're all putting the fear of god in me! [:'(] I'm like many people in that my mind goes completely blank when i'm in stressful situations. However, my husband is the opposite. He is expertly calm. I think i'll just leave everything to him and i'll just bake cakes and keep the garden nice! At least if a stressful situation arrises we'll have a nice garden to sit and be full of chocolate cake. That alone will help won't it?! [I]Right i'm off to put the oven on!!!!! Anyone for a muffin?! [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Regarding the police requesting information about guests.This has just been introduced in our area. We along with all the other chambre d'hotes, camp sites etc have recently received a visit from the Gendarmerie Nationale. We have been given a form to complete and return to the local police station. The information they require from all guests is as follows:Nom, Prenom:Date de naissance:Vehicule utilise:No immatriculation:Marque: Date arrivee dans votre etablissement:Duree de sejour prevu:Autres renseignements que vous jugez utiles:If this is just a local thing or a new national requirement, I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 [quote user="Quillan"]Thanks Tresco glad I am not the only one that 'freezes' sometimes. [/quote]Tell me about it - and I don't even need an emergency to show how daft I can be. How many times have I put the phone down after a call thinking to myself 'you blethering idiot, what on earth possessed you to say that'; when I do know what I should have said, really I do!Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Perhaps we might begin suggesting that those offering accommodation of any kind should have to pass an exam in French before they can open their doors. Makes sense given the very tricky situations that seem to arise. I happen to know my local député who is of the governing party so I'll see what he thinks. He is interested in expats too. Nice man, of the ruling party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betoulle Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 [quote user="Magnolia"]Dear me, you're all putting the fear of god in me! [:'(] I'm like many people in that my mind goes completely blank when i'm in stressful situations. However, my husband is the opposite. He is expertly calm. I think i'll just leave everything to him and i'll just bake cakes and keep the garden nice! At least if a stressful situation arrises we'll have a nice garden to sit and be full of chocolate cake. That alone will help won't it?! [I]Right i'm off to put the oven on!!!!! Anyone for a muffin?! [:D][/quote]It is a good idea to have a basic knowledge of first aid before you open your doors. I am a retired radiographer with over 30 years of medical experience behind me & since we opened have had several medical emergencies to deal with including the usual heatstroke, chronic D&V, asthma attacks, colds, flu etc as well as more serious emergencies where we have had to call out local medics in the early hours - be prepared to accompany the guest to hospital if they do not speak French - its bad enough being ill during the night, but even worse in a foreign country.....also they are unlikely to be capable of dealing with the formalities of paying the doctor, ambulance etc.... Equip yourself with a good first aid kit, anti-venom from the pharmacy & maybe think about a short First Aid course. Also build up a good relationship with the local GP, Pharmacist & Pompiers - then for all the minor ills you will have advice & medication readily available - if nothing else it will impress your guests......Have to confess that I think I would have blanked momentarily if faced with an unconscious guest in a pool blood - I am sure the medical students did not expect to come across such an emergency during their stay with Quillan, who I think coped very well.A word of caution - if you are already medically qualified, don't let your guests know - you will be amazed at how much time will be spent giving advice on all manner of ills..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 [quote user="betoulle"][quote user="Magnolia"] Dear me, you're all putting the fear of god in me! [:'(] I'm like many people in that my mind goes completely blank when i'm in stressful situations. However, my husband is the opposite. He is expertly calm. I think i'll just leave everything to him and i'll just bake cakes and keep the garden nice! At least if a stressful situation arrises we'll have a nice garden to sit and be full of chocolate cake. That alone will help won't it?! [I]Right i'm off to put the oven on!!!!! Anyone for a muffin?! [:D][/quote]It is a good idea to have a basic knowledge of first aid before you open your doors. I am a retired radiographer with over 30 years of medical experience behind me & since we opened have had several medical emergencies to deal with including the usual heatstroke, chronic D&V, asthma attacks, colds, flu etc as well as more serious emergencies where we have had to call out local medics in the early hours - be prepared to accompany the guest to hospital if they do not speak French - its bad enough being ill during the night, but even worse in a foreign country.....also they are unlikely to be capable of dealing with the formalities of paying the doctor, ambulance etc.... Equip yourself with a good first aid kit, anti-venom from the pharmacy & maybe think about a short First Aid course. Also build up a good relationship with the local GP, Pharmacist & Pompiers - then for all the minor ills you will have advice & medication readily available - if nothing else it will impress your guests......Have to confess that I think I would have blanked momentarily if faced with an unconscious guest in a pool blood - I am sure the medical students did not expect to come across such an emergency during their stay with Quillan, who I think coped very well.A word of caution - if you are already medically qualified, don't let your guests know - you will be amazed at how much time will be spent giving advice on all manner of ills.....[/quote]I have some basic first aid knowledge given by the St Johns Ambulance service many years ago at a place I used to work at. Things like recovery position, placing pillows under legs, mouth to mouth and stopping or slowing of external bleeding is about the extent of my knowledge. We do have a first aid kit with a book in French and I have added a book in English. This is kept in our hall with a big sign showing where it is. We also have a big sign in the hall over the phone with all the emergency numbers and a crib sheet just in case, I have also been swotting up on a few things.Hopefully this was a 'once in a lifetime' thing and will not happen again although it pays to be prepaired as I have learnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Jura, you haven't had a chap who was fond of canoe's staying with you, have you ?[;-)][;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 [:D][:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Cannot remember, the past five years are a blank[Www]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 This thread has been pruned and some posts have been removed.Please take a moment to read the Code of Conduct, which we all agreed to abide by when we joined the forum.If you have any concerns about this post please donot post them in the forum (they will be deleted without warning) butsimply use the report button attached to THIS post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassis Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Sounds like Quillan coped pretty well with an "unusual" situation. Regarding whether you HAVE to collect ID on every guest for the benefit of the gendarmes, I think the answer is in theory the law says "Yes", but in practice "It depends". Let's face it, this law is generally ignored - a bit like the 1799 Act to regulate the fees charged by innkeepers and porters for holding and delivering packages in London. I have never been asked for my address by a hotel or a B&B in France and whenever I've seen this same topic on French B&B owners forums they say the same thing - nobody bothers with it any more. I've never had a French guest offer me their ID card on arrival and if they did I'd probably tell them to put it away.Nor do we ask for payment on arrival - that way we get more tips when they pay on leaving. [;-)]In fact, we do ask for and collect most guests' details at time of booking "just in case". In case of what I'm not sure. [:D]"Wait until you have a controle, then you'll be sorry if you don't have everyone's details". I somehow doubt if the gendarmes know everybody who stayed with us so it would be pretty hard for them to catch us out even if they did suddenly decide to do a Spanish Inquisition on us - so I'm not about to wet my pants at the thought of gaps in our guest records. If I don't know someone's address I just mark the address section on the invoice "inconnu". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiseau Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 There's a very useful multi-lingual list of medical emergency expressions that can be downloaded here from the Dept of Health website. Might be a good idea to print out the French and English versions and keep them handy.Angela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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