Pickles Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 According to Midi Libre, the "Union des métiers et de l’industrie hôtelière (UMIH)" is to bring actions against "illegal" CdHs. What are the chances of this initiative succeeding? It reads as if they would have to bring an action against each one individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Yes, I saw this. It seems the hotel trade is having a bad time and is blaming the CdHs for taking too many customers and for not being legal and for doing a load on the black. They have a case, though not against the CdHs but against government regulation which is so demanding as to force many to put the clés under the carpet and run.In addition, many hotels are not attractive to modern customers who do want something different these days. The big chains offer one thing but holiday makers and visitors want something different.Additionally, the sheer volume of camping cars must have taken some of the trade away.I reckon these traditional hotels have had their day and must innovate to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 The same story was reported in the Depeche on Friday. One complaint is they serve meals and alcohol without a licence.In the same edition there was a report that the govt. is gong to legislate to allow class actions, as you say people have to sue individuals at the moment. This was related to a scare story about ?illegal hip protheses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Wooly is right again in what he says. If you look at websites that allow reviews of hotel and CDH's it is interesting to note that on average CDH's come out much better than hotels. This is because CDH's being so small can adapt easily and it is more difficult for hotels to adapt. CDH's also givre a much more personal service normally. I do however agree that more action should be taken against 'illegal' CDH's because it does harm everyone, not just the hoteliers.As to the woman, Corinne Griggio, head of the Hotel du Pont Vieux hotel in Carcassonne it might pay her to read the reviews about her hotel on Tripadvisor which are not exactly the best in the world after 117 reviews. Her hotel, in the middle of 'La Cité' (next to the church), is rated only 25th in Carcassonne.http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g187151-d219730-Reviews-Hotel_du_Pont_Vieux-Carcassonne_Aude_Languedoc_Roussillon.htmlSeems more sour grapes than anything else.Personally I don't think anything will come of this anyway. If the system can't stop illegal Britsh cars in France with no insurance then there is little chance of them doing anything about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 "As to the woman, Corinne Griggio, head of the Hotel du Pont Vieux hotel in Carcassonne"Quillan how does she fit into the scheme of things ? I read some of the T/A reviews but am no wiser as to her connection.W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 [quote user="Wilko"]"As to the woman, Corinne Griggio, head of the Hotel du Pont Vieux hotel in Carcassonne" Quillan how does she fit into the scheme of things ? I read some of the T/A reviews but am no wiser as to her connection. W[/quote]If you read the article in the first post she is one who is complaining about CDH's 'stealing' her trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 To be honest the report on France 2 news on Friday night showed people who were clearly taking in visitors without any registration. There was a woman filmed in 'camera caché' who openly said it was just an informal arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Reading this thread and it suddenly came in to my head:'How many legal CdHs who are upset about the illegal CdHs employ tradespeople who are working on the black'.Just a thought.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 [quote user="PaulT"]Reading this thread and it suddenly came in to my head:'How many legal CdHs who are upset about the illegal CdHs employ tradespeople who are working on the black'.Just a thought.Paul[/quote]Exactly. We have gone to a lot of expense to ensure we are 'legal' in every way yet around me I know of two 'B&B's' that are not. One even has a pool, they take families with young children yet have no fence or pool alarm which not only is, as far as I know, against the law but stupid and dangerous. We sleep well knowing if ever there was a knock on the door we are 100% legitimate but when I see these people bragging about the money they are making and not paying tax (all the money goes to their UK account and they deal only in cash) in France it does annoy me.We would all like to see illegal hotels, B&B's etc closed down but rather than people like this stupid woman in Carcassonne shouting and stamping her feet perhaps we should all work together to get rid of them all, hotels and B&B's.As to tourists in general there is in the SW a great drop in tourists visiting the region in the last two years as a recent regional tourist report clearly states. So basically everyone is suffering at the moment. I went past the holiday shop in Carcassonne yesterday, all inclusive in Spain for one week 299 Euros for two parents and two kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 [quote user="Quillan"][quote user="PaulT"] Reading this thread and it suddenly came in to my head:'How many legal CdHs who are upset about the illegal CdHs employ tradespeople who are working on the black'.Just a thought.Paul[/quote]Exactly. We have gone to a lot of expense to ensure we are 'legal' in every way yet around me I know of two 'B&B's' that are not. One even has a pool, they take families with young children yet have no fence or pool alarm which not only is, as far as I know, against the law but stupid and dangerous. We sleep well knowing if ever there was a knock on the door we are 100% legitimate but when I see these people bragging about the money they are making and not paying tax (all the money goes to their UK account and they deal only in cash) in France it does annoy me.We would all like to see illegal hotels, B&B's etc closed down but rather than people like this stupid woman in Carcassonne shouting and stamping her feet perhaps we should all work together to get rid of them all, hotels and B&B's.As to tourists in general there is in the SW a great drop in tourists visiting the region in the last two years as a recent regional tourist report clearly states. So basically everyone is suffering at the moment. I went past the holiday shop in Carcassonne yesterday, all inclusive in Spain for one week 299 Euros for two parents and two kids.[/quote]Q I appreciate your comments but what I was getting at was 'illegal' CdHs taking trade from 'legal' CdHs and the legals moaning but then there must be some 'legal' CdHs using 'illegal' tradespeople taking trade from 'legal' ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 [quote user="Quillan"][quote user="PaulT"] Reading this thread and it suddenly came in to my head:'How many legal CdHs who are upset about the illegal CdHs employ tradespeople who are working on the black'.Just a thought.Paul[/quote]Exactly. We have gone to a lot of expense to ensure we are 'legal' in every way yet around me I know of two 'B&B's' that are not. One even has a pool, they take families with young children yet have no fence or pool alarm which not only is, as far as I know, against the law but stupid and dangerous. We sleep well knowing if ever there was a knock on the door we are 100% legitimate but when I see these people bragging about the money they are making and not paying tax (all the money goes to their UK account and they deal only in cash) in France it does annoy me.We would all like to see illegal hotels, B&B's etc closed down but rather than people like this stupid woman in Carcassonne shouting and stamping her feet perhaps we should all work together to get rid of them all, hotels and B&B's.As to tourists in general there is in the SW a great drop in tourists visiting the region in the last two years as a recent regional tourist report clearly states. So basically everyone is suffering at the moment. I went past the holiday shop in Carcassonne yesterday, all inclusive in Spain for one week 299 Euros for two parents and two kids.[/quote]Q I appreciate your comments but what I was getting at was 'illegal' CdHs taking trade from 'legal' CdHs and the legals moaning but then there must be some 'legal' CdHs using 'illegal' tradespeople taking trade from 'legal' ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 [quote user="Quillan"]... we are 100% legitimate but when I see these people bragging about the money they are making and not paying tax (all the money goes to their UK account and they deal only in cash) in France it does annoy me.[/quote]Then why not report them to the Fisc, who would be delighted to hear about them.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 I did once and nothing happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 That astonishes me. Though I have heard that it is 'the big fish' who are the most desirable to the Fisc.How upsetting for you when you are doing the right thing and these braggards get away with such underhand behaviour.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 We went to a village fete and there were a couple of "Brits" who had opened a B&B and obviously had no intention of "following the rules" - tax sejour they just scoffed at. We are, like Quillan, legal on our B&B, our property maintenance business and our market stall. We can sleep at night knowing we are doing everything we should, and of course paying the cotisations. Our B&B has perfomed really well up until this year, with enquiries very few and far between at the moment, despite still being on first page on google on most searches. If things do not improve it will probably be our worst year in the 10 years we have been in business. When did you last see an advert on UK TV promoting France as a holiday destination????? The only thing recently has been the dreaded "Little England". We are in the heart of the beautiful Dordogne and it is nothing like they portray here (mostly it is filmed down around Bergerac) - although all the beautiful chateau etc they show during the programme are in our area (but that is another gripe). If I was in gov here or the UK I would ban the dreaded camper vans .... they must have taken a lot of business away from hotels and B&B's. [:@] We had a B&B open up round the corner from us a couple of years ago and I very much doubt if they were legal. Overnight they stuck their B&B sign above ours on the village posts. They priced themselves very cheap, hence they are now gone. The gites we look after have bookings but very patchy and late starting, most have had nothing in May. Lets hope it picks up for us all soon. Try telling the RSI that we have had a bad year!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Felix - Sent you a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 "Ban the dreaded camper vans"???We go off for long weekends in the van maybe 10 or 15 times a year. Sometimes for longer. But for the long weekends it's always a last minute decision, depends on workflow, deadlines and grabbing an opportunity to snatch a break; often it's semi-planned but doesn't happen in the end because a job comes in. No way am I going to start booking B+Bs weeks or even days ahead. We head to the coast, or somewhere peaceful and picturesque, and have a stress free day, and when it starts getting evening we look for somewhere to spend the night and either go out for a meal or cook in the van. In the morning we move on to discover another new place.If your village/town closed its aire, we'd simply stop somewhere else so your local commerces and restaurants would lose trade. We always make a point of shopping and spending money in the commune where we stay, as do most motorhomers, and that's why communes build aires to welcome us. Half a dozen camping cars on the communal aire every night is half a dozen couples or families spending many hundreds of euros between them in the shops and restaurants. And you want to ban them because you think it might get you an extra booking?I'm sorry you're having a bad year and I'm sure your B+B is lovely, but camping caristes aren't your customers. If we liked sleeping under other people's rooves and committing ourselves in advance to dates and places, and if we valued comfort and being looked after over independence and freedom, we wouldn't have gone to the expense of buying campîng cars, would we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I have to agree with EuroTrash, in part, that banning camping cars and caravans come to that would make no difference to the B&B market.The area that I disagree with is how much money they bring in to the local economy, especially if they are owned buy the Dutch or Belgians, it is very little. Most owners bring everything with them and if they do spend it will be in supermarkets. Ask shop, restaurant owners etc in most places where they have 'aires' and they will tell you they bring very little to add to the local economy and it is certainly not hundreds of Euros per family.Unless full I have never known a B&B to turn away business from the door so you don't have to book a B&B days, weeks or even months in advance if you like just to head out for the weekend. You still have the freedom to roam from one B&B to another just staying one night if you want. When you consider the price of a new campervan using EuroTRash's example of how he uses his then it spends 320 days a year sitting on the drive doing nothing but depreciate in value yet it still has to be insured, another cost. A car typically will also go twice as far minimum as a campervan for the same cost of fuel. The price of a new campervan can be around 50,000 Euros or to put it anther way around a 1,000 nights worth of accommodating in B&B's. Likewise there are actually places you can't take a campervan (Monaco comes to mind immediately).Anyway we are not having a pissing competition about what is best but it is wrong to suggest that campervans are to the detriment of B&B's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Unfortunately I have to agree about the Dutch bringing their own food, can't say I've ever met many Belgians, but also I meet English who are proud of having their freezer full of enough Tesco ready meals to feed them for a fortnight. They ignore the local gasto delights all around them and eat Tesco chicken, it makes me so sad. But I think more people buy local than Quillan suggests - either that or they tell lies, because it's an oft-discussed subject on aires. Most French people claim to eat out one evening in two. And even the Brits use the boulangeries.In fact up until recently I used to work summer seasons on campsites and live in my van from March to September, so it spent very little time on my drive (also I didn't buy it new, it's a classic Merc Hymer and if anything has probably appreciated in value over the 10 years I've owned it), but I realise that that isn't typical of CC owners. But as a result mine really is home from home and staying in an unfamiliar B+B could not compete for relaxation and feeling bien dans ma peau. I take your point you can just turn up at a B+B - but first you have to find it, and book in, and unload what you need for the night, which seems so pointless when have your own sitting room to chill out in with your own music to listen to and your own books to read, and your bed is ready made right in front of you. Then, few B+Bs offer the you the chance to go to sleep and wake up in such stunning spots, e.g. I have yet to see a B+B just yards from dramatic cliffs where you can lie in bed watching the sun setting over the ocean (Pointe du Raz), or right on the golden beach where you can listen to the waves and then in the morning you go for a run along the sands and get back in time for when the boulanger van comes round to the aire (Erquy and many more). All that to try to explain why a B+B break would never tempt me as a like for like substitute for a camping car expedition - as Quillan has pointed out, it's not a money thing, it's a lifestyle thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osie Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I have noticed that 2013 has so far been a year of austerity. People are not willing to pay for luxury, they would rather the basic. We are having a great year so far but this is due to reducing the prices. So turnover rather than profit.I may be wrong but I have noticed in our area that the hotels are reducing their prices to B&B prices. This will inevitable take some of the custom of the b&b's.If it was me and I had poor bookings then I would try to offer more for less. Try to get the wheel turning again.Offer organic breakfasts, homemade jam, chutneys... bbq evenings etc... what ever works. and get the message out there with cheap/free advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Or you could beat the dreaded campervans at their own game. If you have a patch of land where they can park, and some home-grown or home-made products that you could offer for sale, you could consider joining France Passion:http://www.france-passion.com/fr_accueillants.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 [quote user="osie"]I have noticed that 2013 has so far been a year of austerity. People are not willing to pay for luxury, they would rather the basic.[/quote]Exactly, you need to look at your competitors and price at least the same or cheaper. People are looking for the cheapest and not necessarily the best but it is things like cleanliness that are important although if you rooms look nicer then you will attract more people. Taking a picture of you bed in the room is not enough, you need about six to eight photos of each bedroom and the size of the room and bed.We have found our cheapest room is always booked and even though we make it quite clear it is under 10m2 and only suitable for one or two nights people reserve it for seven, ten or more nights simply because it is the cheapest. Our most expensive, and our biggest, room hardly had any reservation so we dropped the price, not to the cheapest price but five Euros more (or ten in high season) but then it is still a saving people money. All our rooms reduce in price after seven nights. It is better to have some income from the room rather than none.Breakfasts, well we provide a no frills French style breakfast, no home made jams etc and nobody complains. In fact we had a comment about ours being the best a couple had over ten nights in France who had already stayed in five B&B's during that time. Seems to me some people are cutting right back on breakfasts. Of course it is different with hotels because the breakfast is extra where as it has to be included in the room price by law in B&B's in France.People don't come to stay in a B&B for anything else other than a place to sleep and have breakfast after which they are out and don't come back till the evening. We offer evening meals (four courses with wine and coffee plus an aperitif) and we also have "all you can eat" BBQ's (mainly pork bought in the winter when the special offers at €2.99 a kilo are on, we buy a couple of hundred pork chops and stick them in the freezer) the wine is local "Rocket Fuel" wine for a Euro per litre but after the first glass nobody cares. So what I am saying is they just want a cheap place to sleep.Free or cheap advertising is not always the best. I always tell people to think like a tourist looking for a place to stay then use Google. Look at who comes out on top in advertising and advertise with them. Personally I prefer commission based sites and one of these have given us 80% of our reservations this year. At the moment we have 74 reservations on our books and another two requests have just arrived as I type this. As I have said in the past I have paid a lot of money to be on some of the leading holiday advertising websites and have struggled to get my money back on a couple. I can't be the only one because I keep getting emails from them offering massive discounts or even free advertising because so many people have left them for the same reason i.e. pay a lot of money for no reservations. At least with commission based sites you only pay for the reservations they get you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osie Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 commission based is the way to... at the end of the day you want to fill a room and that is worth paying for. You dont want to pay for something that may not get you a penny. We are with holiday lettings now it is commission based, whereas a few years ago I paid over 200 quid for nothing. We are with Alistar Sawdays but have stopped all other pay upfront methods. There are lots of b&b's round here going the booking.com route which I would recommend to everybody.I have recently implemented automated software that sends an email on the day the client arrives, a questionnaire when they leave and to ask for facebook likes. And probably a xmas card in December. This is free advertising and an additional service at no extra cost. It can be fully automated by anyone but you would need a reservation system connected to a web mysql and a good knowledge of sql... Or just install PHPlist and semi automate it using cut/paste. Lots of good photos and a good website with SEO in mind is also free.Leaving contact cards in the local shops is also free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 [quote user="osie"]commission based is the way to... at the end of the day you want to fill a room and that is worth paying for. You dont want to pay for something that may not get you a penny. We are with holiday lettings now it is commission based, whereas a few years ago I paid over 200 quid for nothing. We are with Alistar Sawdays but have stopped all other pay upfront methods. There are lots of b&b's round here going the booking.com route which I would recommend to everybody.I have recently implemented automated software that sends an email on the day the client arrives, a questionnaire when they leave and to ask for facebook likes. And probably a xmas card in December. This is free advertising and an additional service at no extra cost. It can be fully automated by anyone but you would need a reservation system connected to a web mysql and a good knowledge of sql... Or just install PHPlist and semi automate it using cut/paste. Lots of good photos and a good website with SEO in mind is also free.Leaving contact cards in the local shops is also free. [/quote]We use Beds24, does much the same and collects deposits plus it updates all calenders automatically. None of this mucking around filling in half a dozen different calenders everytime you get a booking. We also use inhouse software designed for B&B's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 HiJust wondered what commissions you guys are paying to Beds 24 and Booking .com.ThanksWilko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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