SACEM - Playing Music in a Café

[cafedufleuve]

We are about to open a café in Quillan, Aude (11) and have just received a letter from SACEM, the equivalent of PRS in the UK which collects music publishing royalities, it says we must fill out the form they included.

Has anyone had any experience with SACEM?

We do not intend to have any live music, a jukebox or a television just perhaps our own cds or the radio playing in the background on a mini hi-fi during the working day.

Do we need to declare this?

I've had a good look on the net and cannot find any sort of cost information or the legal implications of playing cds in a shop environment.

Any advice would gratefully received.

Sam Harris

P.S.  I'm so pleased we have this forum!

[pinkfluff<P>Big Wet Drops and Lots of Them, Are a Sure Sign of Rain!<P>]

I hope for your sake it is not like the UK were PRS used to takes heaps of hard earned dosh of me for playing music in public . The money is used to pay royalties to the people that own the music  even hairdressers with the radio on in the background were liable

[bizzer]

Yep I too think it will be similar to PRS in England I had to pay by the amount of seats I had in the restaurant quite Bizarre really as I can't see what difference that made....

I have asked a few friends with businesses to help me out on this one as I have heard they can take quite a hefty chunk off you, if it is live music a percentage of your takings for the evening but, this is only what I have been told by a hotel friend..

As with PRS if you play music written by anyone else then you are liable for royalty fees and therefore they charge you whether it is radio or cds -- it can't really see this being any different in France.. and a word of caution if it is like England they can back date charges from when you opened...

I will get back to everyone when I find out more

cheers

Barry

[Missy]

[quote]We are about to open a café in Quillan, Aude (11) and have just received a letter from SACEM, the equivalent of PRS in the UK which collects music publishing royalities, it says we must fill out the f...[/quote]

>>We do not intend to have any live music, a jukebox or a television just perhaps our own cds or the radio playing in the background on a mini hi-fi during the working day.<<

It doesn't matter that you have your own CDs, own TVs whatever set up etc... Still you are playing it in a public place with a more or less ready made public audience... so you have to pay a 'public entertainment type licence' which this is in a way.

It is relatively not too costly. About 275Euros per year for one establishement, if my memory serves me right. A company I worked for once, had to pay that amount for one yearly licence per shop/retail outlet. At a tune (so punny!!) of some 25+ outlets!... Aren't you glad you are a single entreprise!

SACEM should have a web site about it.  Also now you have to declare if you have TVs etc... on a form once a year when you pay your TVA... No way to get around the problem and ignore it...

[bizzer]

Hi Again guys

I have asked a few friends and here is a summary of their experiences,,,

Dinner dances/ live music events a chap from SACEM or equivalent turns up on the door and takes 2.5% of the takings.

70€ is the price a friend has paid to SACEM for the privelege of playing music --- CDs...

Do the answer to the question is yep you have to declare you are playing music ---- praps soon there will be a tax on tax... c'est la vie.

Cheers

Barry

[bizzer]

Hi Guys here is the experince of a French friend.

"bonjour Barry

je connais que bien la sacem (C'EST UN VOLEUR DE PLUS ) soyons serieux ,c'est un organisme qui te prend de l'argent si tu diffuse de la musique dans ton restaurant.Mais je te conseille de negocier les tarifs surtout la 1er année d'ouverture et surtout ne signe pas de contrat avec eux si tu toruve les tarifs exagerés.

Ou sinon tu peu attendre que ce soit eux qui te contacte directement .

Les tarifs varies en fonction de l'instalation musicale dans ton restaurant mais si ton restaurant n'est pas trop grand le moins cher c'est la chaine stereo .Mais si tu met des bafles un peu de partout dans le resto. ce sera plus cher.

en 1990 a DAX je payais environ 180€ pour l'année.

mais tu peu negocier avec eux au tarif le plus bas surtout la 1er année.

tu peu aussi voir les conditions sur le site de la sacem directement tu aura ainsi un appercu ."

The crux is that you can negogiate the tarif for the first year and it is more expensive if you have speakers etc in your cafe/restaurant ... cheaper if it is just a stereo or radio in the orner etc.

Cost for the year was 180€ so similar to missyesbut.

If in doubt check the website

http://www.sacem.fr/portailSacem/jsp/ep/home.do

Hope this helps

Cheers

Barry

[JohnM]

I hope somebody will jump and say that you can ignore this for cafes etc.... but use of music in the UK can be a minefield. I wanted one song on a Charity Documentary that I did (A total of 40 DVD's for sponsoring companies and the folk who took part) and found that there are three organisations who like to be involved in taking your money.

In the end PRS and MCPS did a joint "small scale" license for about £18 and I then had to negotiate with EMI for the rights to use a track from one of their CD's (They were great, agreed to charge me the lowest amount possible and then paid it on my behalf! Sic )

 

[Toucan]

Cafe owners have told us that you have to pay different rates according to the size of your speakers/output/amount of speakers. There is a way round it though - use the radio from a satalite and you only have to pay for the TV license.

Jane

[cafedufleuve]

Thank you for all your replies to my questions, they are very helpful.

Sorry, but I have a another one!

Do you think the law surrounding SACEM still applies if you don't have music playing in a café either via speakers or a tv but just have a radio in your kitchen area?

[Missy]

[quote]Thank you for all your replies to my questions, they are very helpful. Sorry, but I have a another one! Do you think the law surrounding SACEM still applies if you don't have music playing in a café...[/quote]

Try it! at your risk.... You are still (unwittingly) broadcasting of a kind....

See what happens....

[JohnM]

I'm not sure you would get away with uses Radio from Satellite and only buying a TV license. It is the "Public" usage that counts not the origin of the music.

It depends on whether you employ others to work in your kitchen and how many. In the UK, firms which play the radio out for the benefit of warehouse / factory workers still need permission from PRS / MCPS. A license is even needed for Music on Hold on phone systems. My sister had call at work one day and she was asked to "just put me on hold please". Fortunately she had put the royalty free CD in on that day (and every day since).

If the radio is set at a volume which is obviously for your (and your family's) pleasure only, but the patrons just happen to hear it if they are right by the door, then I think you would be OK in the UK... but I don't know about France.

 

[mascamps.com]

You also have to pay considerably more for your TV license (in addition to SACEM). If you buy the TV in France (which you'll probably have to or it'll not work on the French SECAM standard) the place you buy it reports your details and you get a sort-of tax return for it the following year.

Can't remember the exact figure but I think it's something like 500€ rather than the "normal" 100€ or so if you're playing it in a bar-type environment (the tax return spells out the exact definition but that's what it boils down to).

 

Arnold