A heating cost question

[Ann]

Hi

I have got a late 2 week booking in October and think that my guests will need heating.  I advertise that heating will be an extra charge.  What is the usual amount that owners charge.

Ann

 

 

 

[Miki]

Many charge 0.15 cts per Kwh. But to do this, you will need a compteur that is wired up just for the electric heating.

If you don't have a counter, then what can you charge ? We learned a

long time ago that if one makes a charge (or not) and you do not have a

way of registering the amount of electricity used for heating, some

guests will leave the heating on all day and some, when its gets too

hot, will not turn it down....oh no....they will open a window !! I kid

you not !!

This is of course if indeed you are talking about electric costs ?

From your post you could be talking oil, gas, logs or electric heating !!

[Ann]

Miki

Thanks for your answer.  I haven't got a counter and thought I would make a charge to cover them having electric heaters on all the time in that way if they did at least it would cover my costs. Any ideas how much that would be.

Ann

[nimportequoi]

It depends what tarif you are on as some are significantly cheaper (e.g. tempo) in October than the heures pleines/creuses and the bleu. Can't you do a little test yourself for a few minutes with all the radiators on prior to their arrival and work it out that way from the kw used? It's a bit difficult for anyone else to guess without knowing the details of your radiators. Incidentally, last October was so mild that no-one used the heating at all in my gites here in sunny Brittany!

[Owens88]

We were out in the pyrenees at 2000 ft. last October and hardly used the heating - even though it was our nice new Central Heating !

I agree with what others say. Take the wattage of your heaters and calculate your max exposure from that. Then work out how much risk you want to take.

Good luck

John

[Coco]

Miki's right.  When we used to rent our house out as a gite we got a call from the guests one Sunday lunchtime saying that the electricity had gone off (we still had electric radiators as our only source of heating at that time).  We tried to talk them through resetting it at the junction box but they seemed incapable of doing this, so I phoned the guy who did our turnrounds and he went over to do it.  When he got there they had already gone out for lunch and he reset the electricity.  He said that every single light was on in the house as well as every radiator at full blast, plus the radio on the hifi.  Presumably, someone had turned a hairdryer on as well and tripped the lot.  This was on a mild day in mid-April!!!

[Mikey]

we have meters on ours, all bookings outside peak pay for their own electricity. I give them meter reading on arrival and tell them the obvious, the more they use the more they pay, and 9 times out of 10 they use next to nothing as they know they'll have to pay and i never bother charging them.

in summer i take fuses out for the heaters so can't be used, but last summer one family in mid August had all doors and windows open and were wearing next to nothing as it was about 25c+ asked how to put heating on as they were cold, me being tight told them to put some clothes on and shut doors and windows if they are cold.  

[Eslier]

Brittany Ferries Holiday Homes recommend between 6€ and 12€ per day depending on the size of the property.

We used to charge extra in the winter for the electricity used at cost. Even with electric heating, we found that the average usage wasn't more that around 15€ per week, and the most anyone ever used was about 20€ (I think they used to washing machine a lot). Now we don't charge, it's easier, and nicer for the guests, to just quote an all inclusive price.

[Miki]

[quote] "Now we don't charge, it's easier, and nicer for the guests, to just quote an all inclusive price.

[/quote]

Sorry don't agree. It would be nice, never to charge at all for electric or heating but only a fool would do that

So why is it "nicer" for some folks to charge up to €12 a day thus around

£60 per week, then to include it in one's price of £xxxx ?

The way I see it, we are being greener by making the client use only

the heat (therefore electric power) that they definitely require. We

charge only for heat they actually use, thereby no one is cheated 

and both parties should feel "nicer". Knowing just how dull Brittany

and France in general can be in the Autumn,Winter and Spring, I cannot

see anyone only using "around" €15 unless of course electric heating is

not the only source and the main point, not many heaters, meaning not

much kilowattage to use. We have  heating to the value of 

8kw in the cottage. If they keep that lot on for a good part of their

day it is around €1,20cts an hour, so just half a day would see €15

disappear. This is perhaps taking it to the max but take it to a

similar scenario over 7 or 14  days or more and  I have to

say, that personally as an owner, much prefer to know that I have not

got to think of the amount of  heat being wasted due to guests

being fully aware that they have been charged for electric heating in the all inclusive price and by golly they are going to get full use of it !

Like Mikey, we show them the meter, which is easily seen in the

cupboard, we zero the meter and tell them the cost (which is also in

the information book that guests are given to read, which tells them of

all the things they need to know about the cottage and the area) of the

heating. At the end of the stay we will not charge for small amounts

used....now what could be better than that, not charged at all...Now

that's NICE.

Not loading up hire charges on the basis of what guests  might use !

You say they used the washing machine a lot...we have never charged extra for anything other than heating.

[Eslier]

Yes, I see your point Miki. It's true that if it is included in the rental price then the guests are still paying for it, but I think a lot of people prefer to know exactly what it will cost them and so an all inclusive price is perhaps more popular.

You make a good point about encouraging guests not to be wasteful. I tend to think however that those guests who are keen to be environmentally friendly will take care with their energy usage anyway. For those who have little interest in saving the planet then it isn't my place to try and convert them whilst they are on holiday - I would sooner they felt relaxed and enjoy themselves.

I agree, I find it surprising too that our guestes seem to use such a small amount of electricity but I can assure you the figures I quoted are true. We used to allow the first ten units free and then charge extra as used.  We are on the Heures Creuse tarif, all the heaters are thermostatically controlled and the houses in question do seem to hold their warmth well. There are also log fires for cold evenings.

You may well be right Miki, and we may be caught out this winter (it's the first time we have offered an all inclusive price for the winter) and end up with huge bills. Time will tell - we'll see !

[Miki]

Do I take it you do not charge for logs either for the log burners ? With the cost of good wood

for fires as high in Brittany as almost anywhere in France (certainly

amongst the highest price I have encountered anyway) it doesn't take

long to burn a substantial amount of euros.............

I do think you are rather lucky that no guests at all have taken a few

liberties with your electric heating but I do hope you based it on more

than just one or two families in Autumn or Spring, rather than in

deepest winter, although getting guests in deep winter in Brittany is

pretty limited almost zilch apart from Xmas and New Year etc.

[quote] It's true that if it is included in the rental price then the guests

are still paying for it, but I think a lot of people prefer to know

exactly what it will cost them and so an all inclusive price is perhaps

more popular.[/quote]

Many gîte owners we know, do give something like 60-75 units free, then

charge on top for any units used after that amount. That seeems a good

idea but then that includes all electric used, rather than just

heating. So really that is the same as having a compteur but unfair

that it includes ALL electric. And as we tell clients before they book

(and it is in all our gumph) they then have the freedom of

choice to stay or not.  The guests we do get must be au fait with

it all and see it as also very nice to know, they are not paying for

any more heating than they actually use........That way as well, the

chance that one lot will spoil it for all, is taken out of the equation

and as they say...it only takes one !

[Patmobile]

[quote user="Miki"]

Like Mikey, we show them the meter, which is easily seen in the

cupboard, we zero the meter and tell them the cost (which is also in

the information book that guests are given to read, which tells them of

all the things they need to know about the cottage and the area) of the

heating. At the end of the stay we will not charge for small amounts

used....now what could be better than that, not charged at all...Now

that's NICE.

[/quote]

Do you show them how to zero the meter?  If so, what's to stop them from doing it themselves at any time they want?

Now that's really nice!!

Patrick

[Miki]

Of course we show them how to do it, by setting it to zero from

the the previous renters total, to show that it is indeed now on zero

for them to commence their period of heat payment.

Nothing at all to stop them doing so, one of the three buttons on the meters says reset

BUT there is a memory inside that accumulates the total used and CANNOT

be set to zero without knowing the code to do so. So we do use that as

well but thus far, it always adds up to the same total. So although it

would be nice, it ain't possible to get it so nicely !!

 The meter can also tell us the amount of heat (kwh) used on

creuses and pleines and a multitude of other info, none  much use

to us but when we get bored we can find out things we didn't know we

needed to !

[alnmike]

We are on heures creuses (sp) and for a week in February this year the electricity bill was €100. (When we are not there with heating on frost setting it was €20 for a month). And they used loads of wood. Am dreading the price of a cord of bois de chauffage this autumn!!

[Anton Redman]

[quote user="Ann"]

Hi

I have got a late 2 week booking in October and think that my guests will need heating.  I advertise that heating will be an extra charge.  What is the usual amount that owners charge.

Ann[/quote]

I would a discount from high summer rate to BUT I would expect the rate for the gite to be enough to cover heating. Other wise you are asking me as a renter to guiess how much a French electricity is. 

[Jo Taylor]

[quote user="Anton Redman"][quote user="Ann"]

Hi

I have got a late 2 week booking in October and think that my guests will need heating.  I advertise that heating will be an extra charge.  What is the usual amount that owners charge.

Ann[/quote]

I would a discount from high summer rate to BUT I would expect the rate for the gite to be enough to cover heating. Other wise you are asking me as a renter to guiess how much a French electricity is. 

[/quote]

Well, no. That just does not work. People who are accustomed to hermetically-sealed centrally-heated houses will put all the radiators on maximum then open the windows, whereas others will wear woolly jumpers at the appropriate times of year and put another blanket on the bed. There's no question of "guiess how much a French electricity is" - guests know in advance the terms of their rental (hands up anyone who doesn't specify heating charges BEFORE guests book?).

I do 40kwh included, which covers most peoples' lighting, hot water and washing machine usage, over that I charge 0.15 per unit. (I don't charge for small amounts over ). Like Miki, I read the meter when they arrive and when they leave; they have a piece of paper detailing how it's worked out.

Last year I had one family who used 150€ worth in 2 weeks in March (small baby, heating up max.), the people before them used 10€ worth in a week; they wore jumpers and went out for walks. How on earth would having a flat fee "to cover heating" make that fair?

[nimportequoi]

I have a problem with one of my gites - it doesn't have a seperate counter, it uses the same one as the pool and another house (with wood heating), so  can't charge for heating based on a meter reading. As it is on the tempo tarif and most guests are here from April - October, I live with it, but I have to do an inclusive charge. I've thought about putting in a seperate meter, but I don't know if the number of winter visitors in this small cottage would justify the installation cost (750€ approx) and other tanding charges, plus electricity would be more expensive in the summer, when it is full for at least 6 months. At the moment, if guests want to book in winter, I put them in the other gite with it's own seperate counter. It is really only at Christmas and New Year that all 3 are let in the period 1st November - 31st March.

Miki,

you are so right on the wood - I had a let a couple of years ago for a month, so charged a low rate of rent, with heating extra, but just let them take wood for the chimney. Even in a month, it is surprising how much is used just for an open fire - and my wood is good cut oak, so not cheap. I won't be making that mistake again! Guests don't realise how expensive it is, they just see all the trees around here and assume it must cost us next to nothing.

[Chancer]

. I've thought about putting in a seperate meter, but I don't know if the number of winter visitors in this small cottage would justify the installation cost (750€ approx) and other tanding charges,

 

I recently fitted a sub meter to my property in the UK, it was surprisingly cheap to buy, from memory about £15 + VAT, say £25 including new tails.

At that price you could even fit one in the heating circuit if you wanted.

I bought it from BDC (or bridisco) Ltd

[Miki]

JR is right but the model  which our electrician bought, which was put

in at the same time as the restoration, was a bit more expensive than

that at  €109,70 in 2003. It is not a difficult or long job for a

sparks to do.

Our indicator was a Flash Ecotec. I believe it was purchased at CEF or

Cyclect (probably the former, as that was where most electrical

material was bought)

http://catalogue.flash.fr/default?ni=1213337&ci=9&app=Catal&pr=83506

[nimportequoi]

Thankyou JR and Miki, I will get an electrician to give me a quote. Even at 109€, it is still much cheaper than putting in a new EDF counter. We were full during last April/May and the heating bill was huge, so I would like to charge seperately for it if possible.