Thebiga Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Now we all know that some people are going to say yeah,yeah fully booked but I don't want to know that as thats good for you.How many people say in the Pays de loire area are down on bookings up against the same time last year.Come on give me a bit of hope here that some are in the same boat as me. Don't be shy if you are just say so.But others that are doing well, As I said please don't boast about it. We all had a dream, some have really come, good some not so good and some a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holliebabes Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 well i am prepared to be honest.last year we did 34 weeks between 2 gites and we were gobsmacked at the response.this year we have done more marketing than we have ever done and this time last year we had 21 weeks booked.this year only 10.i keep getting told people are booking later and later,but i am not convinced.we are on dept 86 poitou charente which is very popular for visitors,so who knows.i will just wait and see.but don't lose hope.you are not the only one in the same boat.lets hope we both have a good year,and those that say they are fully booked already i will take that with a pinch of salt!!!all the best sharon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betoulle Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 HiThis is our 5th season & we have 2 gites - yes, the family gite is fully booked for the 7 weeks school holiday period, but they are all returning families coming for the 3rd year running, so good news, but have had no enquiries for any other weeks during the year. The 2 person gite has just 7 weeks booked (some returning couples) & again no new enquiries now for almost a month... this could be our worst year to date. Normally by early March we have at least 12weeks/gite booked & I start to offer discounts on the remaining weeks at Easter. There is another forum for holiday landlords which I shall pm you the link - it appears that Spain & Bulgaria are having good years, but France is not - could be because of the dreadful summer we all had last year, could be the falling exchange rate but more likely due to the current economic climate in the UK. Like you, we are hoping for the late bookers, but think this could be the 'difficult year' - the 'boom' couldn't last & the falling number of house hunters this year indicates that there is a possible recession on the way. We all just have to hang in there till things improve - look on the bright side, we might actually get to enjoy the summer this year with less washing, cleaning, grass cutting etc to do. Haven't had the chance to get in our pool for 2 years as have been so busy 24/7 (also it was just too cold & wet last summer) maybe I can get the swimsuit out this year...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wils Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 We are in The Languedoc, been renting for 6 years, this is by far the worst year yet, normally get 20 - 22 weeks but at present only 7 weeks booked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 surely if Spain is doing well this year it is nothing to do with the euro?There will be problems.....I guesse.This year the fuel costs have reflected in the bank A/C......Is it cheaper to rent a gite in Spain?The lower end of the holiday market will always be pressureised..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Looking from the outside. 15 years ago when we first purchased our house in the Haute Vienne there were a handfull of gites in the vacinity. There are now a large number at a rough guess between 10 and twenty times the number. Traditional holiday areas with lots of activities and entries in the guidebooks may be holding up. There has been a big expansion in supply but a relatively small expansion in demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I can only speak from a B&B point of view.We have been doing B&B for six years and last year was the best ever by far. We had lots of Americans last year with few the year before. When talking to them last year they basically all said the same thing, namely that with the falling dollar in 2006 they didn't come to Europe because they thought it would improve in 2007. Sadly for them it didn't and with the possibility that it would only get worse decided to come on the basis that they may no be able to afford to in the foreseeable future. We have no bookings from Americans so far for 2008. I don't think they can afford to come.The Brits have problems as well with the Euro and the pound being so weak so we don't seem to have so many booking. I also think that they are holding back to see if things get better.For the Brits we must be talking about a 15% increase in their holiday bills for Euro-land at present due to the Euro with little sign it's going to get better. The large UK holiday companies are struggling to fill hotels in Euro-land and are offering good deals many of which are all inclusive and do offer much better value for money than coming to France. That is of course if you can put up with being treated like a herd if cattle.Fortunately in the past we have not been tied in to just the English speaking world and advertise in many other EU countries and to be honest March is turning in to the best month but mainly down to the Spanish who seem to be booking well at present. Actually I should say Catalans as they all seem to be from Barcelona (which according to the Catalans is where the money is so they tell us).The other thing to keep in mind that none Euro currencies are just a small part of the downward trend. Spain's economy is slowing down and has been hit hard with regards to property sales etc. This is because they aim at the UK market. I did notice on holiday in Spain last month that there is little activity on the building sites there. I was told that it's because house sales have dropped considerably. The French and German banks have already expressed alarm at the loans some other EU countries are getting (mainly because France and Germany supply the money) and feel that Spain, Italy and few others are gong in to recession, their inflation rate has increased and have borrowed to much.If the above is true then the amount of guests from Euro-land will also drop although the domestic market (France) should be OK and we should see a few Germans about.So with bookings well down for 2008 and the immediate future looking a bit bleak I think it's going to be a tough old year particularly if you rely on English speaking guests. Mind you I have seen slow starting years in the past which have come right in the end. It's a fickle business and you never really know till you have closed the doors at the end of the year and count your takings. So lets hope I am totally wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I am listiening to what you say.Much of the population of Europe.....and wealthy Americans will still take holidays...and will look for something nice.The days of pine clad rooms are possibly over...people want from a holiday[most of the time] something more special, different than what they can get at home.Nothing will be easy when money becomes less fluid.Everyone tries their best to do their best.Positive thinking is imerative.I know that this is what works because I have had to create that enviroment to stay alive.....and all the people who have been negativc towards anyone in their past should examine their lives and make a few adjustements.There is nothing wrong with reaching out to others for advise, communication....thats the essance of life and running a succesful buisness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cendrillon Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Quillan said"Mind you I have seen slow starting years in the past which have come right in the end. It's a fickle business and you never really know till you have closed the doors at the end of the year and count your takings." Sensible comment Quillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 HiYou are not alone, this is a bad year for bookings for many, over supply and under demand seem to be the issue as others have pointed out. I would advise spreading your net as far as possible, get friends and family in the UK to spread the word around at their work and social events, you may have to give some big discounts but better that you get something.Panda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 oohps bad typing again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 [quote user="Panda"] HiYou are not alone, this is a bad year for bookings for many, over supply and under demand seem to be the issue as others have pointed out. I would advise spreading your net as far as possible, get friends and family in the UK to spread the word around at their work and social events, you may have to give some big discounts but better that you get something.Panda[/quote]Or, something I learnt a long time ago don't put all your eggs in one basket. The English speaking world should not be your main (and for some people their only) source of income. You should look at joining some sort of organization not because it's nice to be a member but because they advertise elsewhere and not just France. We are in books (as well as the Internet) in about 5 countries and it's all part of the their service. GDF and some others also sell their lists to other people. I believe the AA book of Self Catering and B&B's in France is actually all GDF for example. Great to be with Alistair Sawday (or whatever), nice to feel you are in a up market book but it does not put a lot of bums in your bed and that's what it's about at the end of the day.Make use of the facility on some sites and your own to see how guests find you as well as keeping a personal tally of where they came from advertising wise. A couple of the bigger Internet advertisers often appear to give poor value for money because the guest is actually referred on to your own website that's why you need to check these website logs. Many a person has been paying twenty quid here and there and never got a booking. Not much money individually but if you have four or five it becomes a few bob. One thing France appears to be doing now is sorting out the quality issue with regards to B&B's and Gites. There are some very big changes in the wind this year and next with things like compulsory hygiene courses (for B&B's), registration and grading etc so the cowboys will disappear (well in theory but we will see). Those that feel they don't have to register because they only advertise in the UK (or their home country), receive payment there and not here are going to be in for one hell of a shock. If you think people don't think this I can assure you that there are some idiots out there that do, I know personally of one Brit and a Dutch person who think exactly that. If it's in France then it's run by French rules and regulations.Rant over - Lets hope things improve and we all have another bumper year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimportequoi Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Just a couple of points on your post Quillian, Alistair Sawday are not necessarily 'upmarket' at all, they are properties that are inspected and approved subjectively rather than objectively, as per G de F. It doesn't matter to them that a beam is 199cm from the ground instead of 2m, if a bedroom is 1m2 too small or that you haven't got a pressure cooker in the property, they go on charm and quality of the accommodation and it's owner, rather than what criteria boxes it ticks. I don't know B&B, G de F may be useful for bookings there, but for gites I do very nicely for bookings by using interntet rental listing sites than I would ever get from G de F. I can also charge what I want without joining the organisation. More and more French people seem to be booking through the internet now, as do guests from other nationalities - they can get a far better idea of the quality of the accommodation offered by the photos and website content than by one photo in a brochure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 We are overall up [:)] on last year (in Alpes Maritimes) but last year was down on 2006 and saw a lot of "last minuters". Don't know if this is a trend but we are getting more couples this year and fewer families. I am getting more long-term requests from Americans...typically looking for 4-6 weeks...which I can never take because I have clashes [:@]Funny old game isn't it. Hang on in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 [quote user="ltf"]Just a couple of points on your post Quillian, Alistair Sawday are not necessarily 'upmarket' at all, they are properties that are inspected and approved subjectively rather than objectively, as per G de F. It doesn't matter to them that a beam is 199cm from the ground instead of 2m, if a bedroom is 1m2 too small or that you haven't got a pressure cooker in the property, they go on charm and quality of the accommodation and it's owner, rather than what criteria boxes it ticks. I don't know B&B, G de F may be useful for bookings there, but for gites I do very nicely for bookings by using interntet rental listing sites than I would ever get from G de F. I can also charge what I want without joining the organisation. More and more French people seem to be booking through the internet now, as do guests from other nationalities - they can get a far better idea of the quality of the accommodation offered by the photos and website content than by one photo in a brochure. [/quote]We were invited to join AS a few years back and to be honest for the price paid (including the cheap accommodation and meal for the inspector) it does not give as much coverage as the Internet or books. Books take about 2 years before you start to get any response. Last year 15% of our trade came via people phoning or arriving clutching one of the many books we are in. Also AS is for the English speaking people which does somewhat limit your audience. I do agree with your comments about the Internet in that our own website is probably our biggest income generator. Ours is in both French and English.Over the next few years you will be forced in to being inspected by GDF, Clevacances or your Office of Tourism to French standards whether you like it or not. Forced registration is very much on the cards and AS (neither will be Thomas Cook) will not be one of the approved inspection bodies. In fact in some areas/regions it has already begun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimportequoi Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 [quote user="Quillan"]Over the next few years you will be forced in to being inspected by GDF, Clevacances or your Office of Tourism to French standards whether you like it or not. Forced registration is very much on the cards and AS (neither will be Thomas Cook) will not be one of the approved inspection bodies. In fact in some areas/regions it has already begun. [/quote]How can they 'force' you to be inspected? Can you some proof of this statement? And how is this going to be any guarantee of quality - to be honest, most French guests who stay in my gites, who have previously stayed in G de F accommodation have said mine is far superior. So I guess I'll just have to lower my standards (and raise that bloody beam...)Unless there is goverment regulation, how can they force it, if you are registered with the ch de com/hotel d'impots and pay all your dues, are they really going to shut successful businesses down just because they don't conform to G de F or Clévacances? Most guests who stay with me would rather have a swimming pool than a pressure cooker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 In our region we have to have been inspected to be able to be listed with the tourist office and publicise by way of roadside signage etc. Initially this was a voluntary thing, the incentive was to receive substantial reductions on any advertising in France. Last year inspections became compulsory for anyone starting a B&B or Gite business (no all regions have implemented this yet due to lack of resources) and as you know you have to be registered with the Mayor. This is French law, there are fines and you had till 31st December 2007 to register. The next 'phase' is for all owners to attend the Chambres de Commerce. This I believe is being done in groups, we HAVE to attend on the 29th March. These meetings are to inform you of the new and future legislation, to check you are properly registered for tax and cotistations and no doubt an attempt will be made to get even more money out of you. Having not attended yet I am not 100% sure about all this but will report back on my return. You can have a basic inspection done by the Office of Tourism which is in reality Clevacances or you can select GDF if you wish. If you look through the forum you will see several posts about the new laws and what is required. As is normal in France it has not been particularly well organised. There is now a official form that you can download to send to your mayor and you are obliged by law to ensure you have a receipt.To imply that you will have to 'down grade' your accommodation is simply stupid. What they want to ensure is that you meet basic requirements, how much beyond them you go is down to you. Of course the more you put in will increase your grading with GDF and Clevacances if you wish to register with them. The French holiday maker does like to see that you have some form of registration with a body, it guarantees the standard and gives them somebody to complain to that has 'teeth' if they are not satisfied. There are already laws and fines in place with regards to certain aspects of running either a B&B or Gites and there is a booklet available from the Ministere de L'Economique des Finances et d L'Industrie which you should find of interest. There is a lot of information around about minimum requirements by French law of what a Gite or B&B has to include, you just need to look around for it. It has been discussed and links have been supplied in this forum over the last 12 months, you just need to search through it all. Of course if you are a member of GDF or Clevacances and registered with your Office of Tourism you will get a lot of this stuff posted to you as a matter of course.Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 As a gite owner, I have asked the préfecture to rate the accommodation under their "independent" label.This means I can leave leaflets at the tourist office and link to my website on the tourism website for the department and region.As Quillan says above, it also gives clients reassurance that a certain standard of accommodation and facilities is provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimportequoi Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Quillian, are you sure that gite owners had to register with the Mairie by Dec 2007 - I thought it was only B&B/Ch d'hôtes. If you have a link that includes gite owners in that legislation, can you let me know?Clair, does that mean you didn't have the Cmévacances inspection? They still allow you to link? I'm not registered with Clévacances or Gde F and have no wish to do so in the future. What Quillian is suggesting about inspections is something I've not heard of and I don't see how it could be enforced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 [quote user="ltf"]Clair, does that mean you didn't have the Cmévacances inspection? They still allow you to link? I'm not registered with Clévacances or Gde F and have no wish to do so in the future. What Quillian is suggesting about inspections is something I've not heard of and I don't see how it could be enforced.[/quote]The property was inspected by a guy from the préfecture. It took about a year from my request to the inspection.Details here: http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/547301/ShowPost.aspxI contacted the mairie first, I was given a form to complete and they sent it on to the préfecture, although there was a lot of pressure from the local tourist office to go with CV, as the rating would be done very quickly. But I did not see any poin t in joining CV as, at the time, I was getting more weeks booked via my website and listings than any local CV registered properties, and I did not see any ppoint in paying an annual fee to be listed with them.The inspection cost €50 and is valid for 5 years. I was given a registration certificate and a ref #, which I quote on my listings/ads and which is required by the tourist offices if I want to leave my leaflets/cards. With that registration, I can also put a link to my website on the Lot tourism website, which would not be accepted without an official rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 It is and will be enforced by the nature that you must register with your prefecture (via your Mayor). The new registration form covers Gite and B&B as well as other types of accomodation. It has a CERFA number so search the forum for cerfa and you will probaby find the link. At some stage (after you have registered) the tourist office will contact you with all the information you require and tell you what to do. I don't see that we should do all the research for you, its what you should have done before you started your Gites. The clever bit that makes you register, and you must read it properly, is the bit about cleaning and supplying beding and towels.Clair (or was it Cat, I don't remember) gave a link to three documents, one for B&B's, one for TDH and the other for Gites. I am not going to scrabble round finding them again for you, you can do that yourself. I did download copies and this is the basic one for Gite. You will have to translate it yourself. There is another document which like the one for B&B's gives far more detail and tells you the fines and penalties you can suffer for not meeting the minimum requirements. It also tells you how to get grants to help 'modernise' your Gite to meet those requirements. Just because you have not done your homework does not mean they do not exist. In France it's your responsibility to go look for them.Let me say again that nobody is forcing you to downgrade your Gites. I am sure they are way above the minimum requirment needed. The idea is to enure that there are minimum standards for all.The reason I mentioned that the tourist office inspection is the same as Clevacances is because the Office of Tourism runs Clevacances as the Dept of Agriculture (I think thats the right government body, feel free to correct me if I am wrong) runs GDF. Both are run by government departments. So if you are going to be inspected you might as well pay the small difference (about 20 Euros) and have the full Clevacances inspection. Since 2006 (when GDF lost their court case for restricted practices) you may be a member of both Clevacances and GDH.I. CONDITIONS D'ÉTABLISSEMENTA. Conditions tenant aux locaux1. Lieu d’implantationLe gîte rural doit être situé dans une zone rurale à vocation touristique. Il peut se trouver à l’intérieur ou à l’extérieur d’un bourg. Il est impérativement d’un usage totalement indépendant . les immeubles en copropriété sont donc exclus. En outre, l’extérieur du bâtiment doit en principe correspondre aux spécificités de la région. Les occupants doivent disposer d’espaces extérieurs (par exemple : balcon, emplacement de stationnement de véhicules, jardin, terrasse).2. ÉquipementsLe gîte doit, au minimum, être doté : - d’une salle commune meublée ;- d’une cuisine, ou d’un coin cuisine aménagé dans la salle commune, comprenant au moins un évier, une cuisinière, un réfrigérateur, une table et des chaises en proportion de la capacité d’accueil, un placard et tous les ustensiles nécessaires ;- d’une salle d’eau comprenant au moins un lavabo et une douche ;- de toilettes intérieures ;- d’une (ou plusieurs) chambre(s) indépendante(s) équipée(s) d’un lit et de meubles ;- de l’électricité, de l’eau potable courante (chaude et froide) ainsi que d’un moyen de chauffage ;- de moyens permettant le lavage, le séchage et le repassage du linge. L’ensemble de l’équipement doit être en bon état afin de garantir la sécurité des occupants. Les meubles doivent, en principe, présenter un caractère rustique.Remarque : d’autres conditions peuvent être imposées en cas : - d’adhésion à un réseau . - d’exploitation d’un gîte spécialisé (par exemple, gîte d’enfants).3. Aides financièresLe Conseil général de département peut octroyer, sous conditions, des subventions aux exploitants de gîtes ruraux. Elles sont accordées uniquement pour financer les frais de travaux d’aménagement ou de rénovations. Des subventions régionales, voire européennes pour les zones défavorisées, peuvent également être octroyées.B. Conditions tenant à l’exploitant1. Statut juridiqueL’exploitant d’un gîte rural n’est soumis à aucun statut professionnel spécifique. Cependant, l’activité de location de gîtes ruraux devient commerciale lorsqu’elle s’accompagne de prestations de service d’hôtellerie (par exemple : nettoyage du gîte, fourniture du linge de maison, accueil de la clientèle, etc.) et/ou de prestations de service de loisirs (par exemple : location de VTT). Une immatriculation au registre du commerce et des sociétés (RCS) est alors obligatoire si l’activité est exercée à titre de profession habituelle (c’est-à-dire de manière répétitive dans le but d’en tirer des profits). En revanche, si cette activité est occasionnelle, ponctuelle ou exceptionnelle, elle ne confère pas la qualité de commerçant et ne donne pas lieu, en principe, à immatriculation au RCS. Lorsque seule l’activité de location immobilière est exercée, l’exploitant doit toutefois s’adresser au centre des impôts. En fonction du chiffre d’affaires réalisé dans le cadre de cette activité et des autres revenus de l’exploitant, le régime fiscal des loueurs en meublé peut trouver à s’appliquer (voir la fiche Le loueur en meublé).2. Promotion et réservationL’exploitant peut commercialiser l’occupation de son gîte en dehors de tout circuit organisé. L’appartenance à un réseau facilite l’accès à des moyens de promotions et de publicité.a) Exploitant non adhérent d’un réseau Il doit : - gérer seul la promotion et les réservations (confirmation, désistement, etc.) de son gîte ; - en assurer la publicité par une signalisation (notamment en bordure de route et aux extrémités des villages) à l’aide de panneaux commercialisés par la direction départementale de l’équipement.b) Exploitant adhérent d’un réseauIl doit : - commercialiser son gîte par l’intermédiaire du service de réservation du réseau qui se chargera directement de la gestion de la clientèle, des contrats, de la facturation ainsi que de la comptabilité ;- apposer le panneau du réseau auquel il appartient à l’entrée de son bâtiment.3. AssurancesL’exploitant d’un gîte rural doit informer son assureur de la mise en location saisonnière d’un logement touristique ainsi que des activités complémentaires qu’il pourrait proposer dans le cadre de l’exploitation. Pour de plus amples informations, vous êtes invité à consulter le site du Centre de documentation et d’information sur l’assurance (CDIA) : www.ffsa.fr ou à écrire au 26, boulevard Haussmann, 75311 PARIS CEDEX 11C. Classement du gîteL’exploitant qui désire mettre en location un logement, à l’occasion des vacances, peut obtenir son classement préfectoral. Il figurera alors sur la liste des meublés de tourisme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimportequoi Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Quillan,thankyou for your help. Of course I've seen that document before and of course my gites conform to it. Please don't lecture me about doing my homework as I've been running a very successful gite business for several years and am fully registered with the ch de com. Nowhere, on any forum, have I seen that locations meublés are included in the B&B registration that you are talking about and I've just checked with my Mairie and they have confirmed this. It concerns me that you, as a moderator,are writing totally misleading information on this forum. The business of locations meublés is different in many ways to that of ch d'hôte, perhaps you should confine yourself to the B&B forum in future.Sorry to the original poster about the thread creep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebiga Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 ITF, Thanks for apologies for the thread creap at least someone knew how the thread started.I would say to the moderator that turning or allowing threads to turn into an argument is not really very good.Perhaps we could get back on track about poor bookings, Unless of course everyone is fully booked? It would be nice if everyone was but I don't think that is the case. If people further down are fully booked its possible that its because they had enough money to buy that far down but I'm afraid we didn't. So we have to put up with are small piece of Loire Atlantique but we love it anyway.I think a space should be put on the forum for a good old rant as I think it needs it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 We are booked for the July and August weeks and also have April and June bookings, which are a welcome bonus.Booking-wise, our worst summer was in 2006. We have noticed that our holiday-makers have been mainly French and Belgian over the last 2 years and that they are booking much much earlier than they used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimportequoi Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Thebiga, I agree, it isn't very professional of the moderator to be as rude as they were on this thread, it doesn't set a very good example.Re bookings - mine are OK here in Brittany too, even a bit better because of the early Easter, so I'm not sure that being further south is the only advantage. Sometimes being closer to the channel ports with less driving can help, particularly in April/May and September when people don't usually book more than a week at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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