Taxe professionale for gite owners?

[Frogslegs]

I placed a post under finance explaining that I had recieved a taxe professional bill for 300 euros. I duly returned the form saying I no longer had a siret number as I was a mico bic.  To cut a long story short, arrived in 2001 registered as a micro bic till 2003 then registered as a business with a siret number, paying cotisation ect. 2004 deregistered when it became apparent that running a gite did not require to pay cotisations, pensions ect.  So apart from recieving in 2003 one bill for Taxe professionale have never received one till recently. We were then sent a  letter to visit the tax office this morning where (my french is not fluent) the lady informed us that our original siret number was still valid and taxe professional was due. So we paid up!

Is the siret number still valid for a micro bic? Some posts mentioned that the tax is instead of tax d'habitation but our bill is for the three buildings. We have no other income! 

[Moorejw]

Some confusion here! A micro-bic is a tax regime and if you are registered as a business, even a micro-bic you have a siret no. Taxe Professionelle is paid by every business to their commune. If you work from home and are self-employed you still pay it. It is not a substitute for any other tax - you will still pay taxe d'habitation, taxe fonciere and income tax (impots sue le revenue).

[Panda]

It is confusing but perhaps you can tell the OP Moorejw,  as I read it, he was set up as a full professional micro-bic and paid cotisations and professional taxe, he then realised he didn't need to be set up as a professional business  (presumably as discussed before because it's not his main income) he then deregisted as a professional business, so no cotisations to pay. 

The big question is should he still have a taxe professional bill if he no longer registered as a professional business, I certainly only get a bill for my professional business not for my gite (when I had one).

The OP is confused about siret numbers, as you say you always have a siret number regardless and in his case the confusion for the tax office probably comes from the fact that he was once registered as a full business under the same siret.

[Frank]

Hi

Just to throw more confusion here, I have just registered gites as an enterprise individuelle and selected micro bic tax regime.  I was led to believe (at the impots) the tax professionel for the gites would replace the habitation tax, is this not correct?? And if not, what % is paid for the tax??  Or is the tax professionell just for gites registered with Gites de France (I ask because it is listed in the questionaire to apply the rating)  If anyone has any info of forums etc that may shed a little more light on this it would be greatly appreciated[:D]

Many thanks

jetlag

[Frogslegs]

Some confusion here! A micro-bic is a tax regime and if you are registered as a business, even a micro-bic you have a siret no. Taxe Professionelle is paid by every business to their commune.

Well perhaps I should be grateful that for the past 6 years I have NOT paid taxe professionelle! (except for the one year) I presumed that once I had deregistered the siret would not be valid. I have not seen it quoted on any documents until this recent bill.

thanks for everyone's input,

and frogslegs is a she!

 

[woolybanana]

we never doubted it, "she"

[Frogslegs]

Now I have paid the bill and the form returned to me I can now clarify exactly the type of form, AVIS D'IMPOSITION.taxe profesionnelle, taxe our frais de chambres de commerce et d'industrie et taxe pour frais de chambres de metirers et de l'artisan. Perhaps because of the health issues more of us will receive such forms which we had not before!

[Panda]

Hello

I'm still not convinced you should have received this.  Yes you have a siret but you are not one of the items you listed, not professional, not an artisan etc.  Where do you put the amount of income from your gites on your tax return form, this may be the crux of the matter, perhaps you've filled it differently this year?

Panda

[The Riff-Raff Element]

If the gite is on another site and is not attached to your home then normally taxe professionale would replace taxe d'habitation on the gite. If on the other hand you are paying both taxe prof and taxe hab on the gite then something has probably gone awry. That's how it works here, anyway.

[Frogslegs]

Yes the gites are within our grounds and habitation has been paid on both. Filled the form in the same as the past 6 years....suppose I better check though! But this is the same tax office that repeatedly sent our tax form to our former address in U.K. for two years!

[Panda]

Can someone just clarify

If you have a gite which is run as a non professional business (i.e. it is not your main income and you do not pay cotisations to URSAFF etc. on the income) you are charged taxe professionale but that you do not pay tax d'habitation on the house in which the gite is being run.

That, I think, is a summary of what has been said in this thread.

[Jazzer]

Slightly off  track but I am suffering from information overload.

 

At present I am registered Micro BIC for our sole gite which brings in an income of around €6000.I have been considering using this as a vehicle for entering the French Health System now that my E106 expires in Jan, However I read on a property website that you MAY be required to pay socialcontributions if you have 2 or more dwellings, the properties are the principle homes of the occupants, and the minimum criteria is €23000 or more than 50% of earnings. Would this therefore prevent me from joining?

 

Hoping someone can help me, Many thanks

[Jo Taylor]

Jazzer,  If the gite income is your only income (hope not!), then it is more than 50% of your earnings - do you have another registered business, or a job? (Presume not, if you're on an E106 and not in the system.) It's a bit difficult to advise here as your statements don't really add up - you can't be living on €6,000, so there must be other income?

[Jazzer]

Jo, many thanks for your reply. Thankfully the gite  is not my only source of income, I have an occupational pension and investment income which totals in excess of €22000.

[Tony F Dordogne]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread .......

I've been asked to do a list of gites, CdH, B&Bs etc in this Commune for a report being compiled for the Tourist Committee.  Went to the Mairie, looked through the appropriate returns, papers etc and none of the 8 various enterprises we have in the Commune associated with letting properties, are registered, even tho some are fairly substantial businesses.

None paid the Taxe Professionale in 2005, 2006 or from what we got from the Sous Prefecteur, 2007, tho that needs to be verified.

One is owned by an Irish couple, one by Australians, three by Brits and 3 by French.  From what we can tell, several are not registered for any form of tax in France, not are they registered in any way as businesses - unfortunately, all the outre-mere.

So, what do I do? A quiet word seems appropriate all round but I think this may now be investigated further cos the Maire was not best pleased that the Brits are not registered.

[Clair]

B&Bs have to be registered with the mairie.

The official text is here (Décret n° 2007-1173 du 3 août 2007 relatif aux chambres d'hôtes et modifiant le code du tourisme).

[Tony F Dordogne]

And from previous threads, all gites should be registered for taxe professionale?

[Clair]

I don't think that's the case.

I'll look for the relevant texts and come back.

[Clair]

FS053 - Taxe professionnelle et location meublée

Les loueurs en meublé sont normalement assujettis à la taxe professionnelle.

Sont exonérés de la taxe professionnelle :

  les

propriétaires ou locataires qui louent occasionnellement une partie de

leur habitation personnelle, lorsque cette location ne présente aucun

caractère périodique ;

  les

personnes qui louent ou sous-louent en meublé une ou plusieurs pièces

de leur habitation principale, sous réserve que les pièces louées

constituent pour le locataire ou le sous-locataire en meublé sa

résidence principale, et que le prix de location demeure fixé dans les limites raisonnables ;

  sauf délibération contraire des collectivités territoriales ;

les personnes qui louent tout ou partie de leur habitation personnelle à titre de gîte rural (à condition que le gîte soit classé "gîte de France" et ne constitue pas l’habitation principale ou secondaire du locataire),

  les personnes qui louent en meublé des locaux classés -appartements et

chambres meublés loués à la semaine dans la limite de douze semaines, à

l’occasion des vacances- lorsque ces locaux sont compris dans leur

habitation personnelle.

source: http://www.logement.gouv.fr/article.php3?id_article=2565

(relevant sections in bold and red)

[Tony F Dordogne]

So, if I've understood this correctly, this ONLY applies to people who rent out part of their own home, maison principal, and then only if registered as a gite with GdF.

So all the etrangers we have renting their maison secondaire, who never even visit the village, should be paying taxe professionale and probably paying income tax on their income from their French enterprise.

[Clair]

I wanted to qualify your previous comment that "all gites should be registered for taxe professionale", as it clearly is not the case.

[Tony F Dordogne]

Understand that Clair, I'm sort of working on the definition that ?Jo posted some time ago which gives the broader view.

So, with the exceptions that you've detailed - if you rent part of your own home and are registered with GdF - you should be paying taxe prof?

[leslieneils]

This seems to summarise it, although it can get complicated! See para 4.3.3.

http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/working-in-france/letting-property/taxation/#4.3

[Jay]

I declared Gite income for the first time this year (2007season)

and received a letter from the tax office asking where the Gite was situated. It

is in fact part of our main dwelling and I visited the local tax office and

told the (not so nice) lady this. I was told I should have a siret number and I

would probably get the same response next year. No further action was taken.

The Gite income is a minor part of our total income.

 

I thought everything was sorted until I got a letter

returning all the documentation I sent l’Assurance Maladie. The letter asked

the following:

 

Vous avez declare

un BIC de **** Euro sur votre avis d’imposition 2007.

Veuillez nous preciser si vous etes soumis a la taxe

professionnelle et de nous retourner un justificatif.

 

Has anyone received such a query and if so what sort of

reply do they require?

Any constructive help/advice would be appreciated.

 

[D&J]

[quote user="Jay"]

I declared Gite income for the first time this year (2007season) and received a letter from the tax office asking where the Gite was situated. It is in fact part of our main dwelling and I visited the local tax office and told the (not so nice) lady this. I was told I should have a siret number and I would probably get the same response next year. No further action was taken. The Gite income is a minor part of our total income.

 

I thought everything was sorted until I got a letter returning all the documentation I sent l’Assurance Maladie. The letter asked the following:

 

Vous avez declare un BIC de **** Euro sur votre avis d’imposition 2007.

Veuillez nous preciser si vous etes soumis a la taxe professionnelle et de nous retourner un justificatif.

 

Has anyone received such a query and if so what sort of reply do they require?

Any constructive help/advice would be appreciated.

 

[/quote]

Has anyone received the above letter from CPAM, please? If so, any ideas what they're after?

David L