Ugly Fences for swimming pools

[Cris at Migron]

I'm looking over a lovely view across the lawn to the pool at the end of the garden. I understand it needs to be fenced by law, and as we intend to rent out our house occasionally this makes sense.

However, all pool fences I have seen are hideous, modern, expensive and make the garden look like Colditz.

I'd like some traditional barrier in keeping with the old stone house, and to enclose a large area rather than just the pool.

Anyone got any ideas for legal, traditional, good-looking fences (approx 80ms worth) that wont break the bank, and a reputable company that will install this?

We're near Cognac/Saintes.

Thanks

[Tresco]

Hi Chris.

Hows your French, because as you are here at the moment it might be an idea to scout around and see if there are any fairly new fences of a type you like around Migron, then be brave and ask the owners who did them.

If your French isn't great it's going to be a fairly simple set of questions to work out. This is what i'm doing for my terrasse, (tiles/laying) and no one seems to mind, in fact I think they like it, partly because I am complementing their choice of materials etc, and partly because they can have a laugh at my crummy French.

tresco

[Richardh<HR> <a target=_blank href="http:www.piscine-barriere.com"><U><FONT color=#0000ff size=1>www.piscine-barriere.com<U><FONT><A><P><P>]

There are a few companies manufacturing fences in wood that have been approved or at least claim to meet the norm. They are only available from specialists. If you trawl google.fr looking for barrieres de piscine bois then you will find them. You will also discover that they are among the most expensive options available.

Companies who manufacture traditional fences, unless they have been tested to meet the norm, will not install them around a pool as they are potentially liable to a 250,000 € fine. Enough to make your eyes water. Plus the possibility of a jail term.

Good hunting

Richard

[Poolguy]

Chris

I've sent you an email on this one

 

Andrew

[Hagar]

Chris,

Spotted this in the latest edition of Piscines & Spas - It is a wooden security fence that folds down into the plage when the pool is in use. Some of the pictures on their web site have a certain "Esthétisme".

 http://www.prestitech.com/index.html

rgds

Hagar

[Richardh<HR> <a target=_blank href="http:www.piscine-barriere.com"><U><FONT color=#0000ff size=1>www.piscine-barriere.com<U><FONT><A><P><P>]

Cris,

further to my last posting I have just seen a fence made from Iroko (sustainable wood) in the paper version of securite-piscines.com which conforms to NF P 90-306 Unbelievably they dont have a web site, you need to contact aoa.industries@wanadoo.fr for more information.

Good luck

Richard

[Cris at Migron]

Firstly I'd like to thank everyone who has replied. You guys are a wealth of information, and I've followed up all suggestions.

Still have the question: rather than fence in just the water, as most "pool fences" do, is is within the law to fence in a large section of the garden incorporating the pool, with a tall farmers' wire fence or similar? Securely gated, of course.

Our neighbour has a wire fence 1.5m high which would keep the most tenacions child out, can we incorporate that into out defence?

[Richardh<HR> <a target=_blank href="http:www.piscine-barriere.com"><U><FONT color=#0000ff size=1>www.piscine-barriere.com<U><FONT><A><P><P>]

Dear Cris,

The short answer is no.

Although the regulations state that the fence must be at least 1M from the waters edge they don't give a maximum distance, they merely state that the fence must not be so far away as to be ineffective. In which case using a non approved fence, even a distance away would be considered to be either not effective or that the pool wasn't fenced at all. The regs are really specific about the size of holes in mesh, not more than 5mm, the fence must have no sharp edges or any possibility of cutting, scratching or grazing a child etc etc. The reality is that you are self certifying anything you construct as conforming to the norm, and, frankly speaking, this is virtually impossible.

You could of course put an approved fence around your large area and then it merely becomes a matter of opinion as to whether or not it is ineffective.

If in doubt read the regulations and weep!

Richard

[P.Shute]

Does anyone know weather you can build a block wall at the right height etc??

This way I build a wind break and a sun trap at the same time...

phil

[Richardh<HR> <a target=_blank href="http:www.piscine-barriere.com"><U><FONT color=#0000ff size=1>www.piscine-barriere.com<U><FONT><A><P><P>]

A wall of more than 1.1M height with no hand/footholds (I guess you could crepi or render it) would be fine. All you have to ensure is that the door or gate opens outwards, closes automatically and conforms as below. You also need to ensure that there is nothing within a 1.1M arc from the top of the wall that could be used as a step up so that a child could use it to climb over.

5.8.1.3 Déverrouillage

5.8.1.3.1 Exigences générales

Pour prévenir le risque de déverrouillage par les enfants de moins de cinq ans ou un déverrouillage non intentionnel, le système de déverrouillage doit nécessiter au moins une action manuelle d’une force de 20 N minimum (appliquée sur le point le plus éloigné de l’axe pour les organes de rotation) pour être libéré et au choix :

—nécessiter au moins deux actions consécutives sur le système de déverrouillage pour le libérer, la seconde étant dépendante de la première qui est réalisée et maintenue ; ou

—nécessiter deux actions séparées mais simultanées agissant selon des principes différents ; ou

—comporter deux dispositifs de déverrouillage distants d’au moins 1 000 mm devant être actionnés simultanément; ou

—être inaccessible à un enfant de moins de cinq ans avec un système de déverrouillage à une longueur développée supérieure à 1,50 m (mesure effectuée à partir du sol à l’extérieur de la zone protégée).

L’usage d’un outil tel qu’un jeton, une clé ou une carte magnétique n’est pas considéré comme étant une action telle que définie ci-dessus. NOTE Le mouvement d’ouverture du moyen d’accès n’est pas considéré comme une action de déverrouillage. Le système de déverrouillage doit pouvoir être manœuvré sans difficulté par les adultes.

You could make your own gate or fit a door, but according to the norm the gate needs to have been tested 50,000 cycles. I would advise buying a selfclosing self locking gate that has been tested that meets the norm. There are plenty out there.

Richard

[P.Shute]

My pool is built on a steep hill so the side of the pool that is near to the top of the hill is ground level but the side to the bottom of the hill is out of the ground by 1.50m... Do I have to wall completely around the pool???

phil

[Richardh<HR> <a target=_blank href="http:www.piscine-barriere.com"><U><FONT color=#0000ff size=1>www.piscine-barriere.com<U><FONT><A><P><P>]

Fantastic, just the sort of question that is not covered at all in the legislation. I can't speak with authority, but I would build the wall on the three sides that have a level terrace around them - I presume this is the case? and leave the fourth side open where the pool falls away.

I guess you could argue that the fourth side constitutes an above ground pool and they are exempt from the regs!

I've been told that there are only 15 so called 'official experts' covering all of France so getting an official opinion could take a while...

[agricola]

Cris

You do realise that you don't have to have a fence or wall etc to comply with the law? As long as you have one of the safety devices that conform, ie a fence, or an alarm or a safety cover thats OK. My pool is in a similar position to yours so we're getting an alarm ( yes, I know the problems!) and not letting our gite to anybody with children under the age of 5 years, just for our own peace of mind.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Jacks]

Can someone please tell me how an alarm can work. If you go out and a child comes on to your property and goes near the pool there is no one there to hear the alarm.

[Jonzjob]

We are looking at putting a criss-cross type fence around the part of our pool that is not enclosed by either a wall or a hedge, both impenetrable to a young child, with the idea of growing roses or similar on the fence. I know that this does not comply with the law, so we will also have a pool alarm to do that bit. If any children are allowed by the pool then they will be supervised. If a child wants to get over one of the approved fences there are enough bits a pieces in the average garden that they will use to get over it. The only real answer is supervision.

The so called logic behind fencing pools and not lakes or rivers is that the pool is a place to play. To a child any water is a play place and any fence is a chalenge. Also a gate, self closing or not, is only any good if it is closed and not propped open as we have seen.

John.

[Richardh<HR> <a target=_blank href="http:www.piscine-barriere.com"><U><FONT color=#0000ff size=1>www.piscine-barriere.com<U><FONT><A><P><P>]

I've read many of John's posts and as usual this one is full of common sense.

The pool professionals in the USA talk about layers of security where safety is concerned, which is what John is suggesting for his pool. In the USA they advocate not only having a fence, which is required by law in many states when you install a pool, but also having an alarm in the water, and individual gate alarms on the pool gate and any screen doors that open from the house into the garden. Let's face it, if you want to protect your children you put up with a bit of inconvenience to keep them safe.

It seems to me that many of us have lost the plot a bit where this is concerned, worrying about the cheapest way to comply with the law, when really it should be about what makes that particular pool safest. Let's not forget that between 1 june and 1 september 2003 there were 172 drowning incidents in private pools in France with 52 children dead... I think that you will also find that the majority were at home and in the care of their parents when they died.

The only thing I'd add, as I've said before, is that if you depend on an alarm you need to determine whether it will still work when you have your winter cover in place.. or whether you need an AFNOR approved safety cover as well for the winter.

Richard

[agricola]

Hi Jacks

Yes, I agree, an alarm would be totally useless unless someone is around to hear it. Luckily we're in the middle of nowhere, so can't think that a child could venture near. also have whole property fenced with gated drive.