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E106 - new health rules . confused


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Hi,

We are planning to move to France next year ( it was originally planned for last yr but we have had problems and have had to delay ).  I have just realised about this new health ruling and want to clarify one point. We are in our 40s and planning to start a business in France but this will take time.  We are not eligible for the E106 as have not been working in the UK for 2 yrs ( we have been living in Spain), so were going to get the exemption letter and so get health insurance from the Government after 3 months.  Does this ruling mean we are going to have to get private health insurance from day 1 or in effect do we have the E106 by heed of the exemption letter?.  I dont think I am being v clear but I would be very grateful if someone could clarify.

 

SorchaJames

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Nothing is totally clear at present but the chances are that you will need either a) to pay full private healthcare from day 1 or b) pay "cotisations" through your business, thus qualifying for health care in France.  I know little about the processes for the latter but others on here do.  I suspect that your best bet is to get your business properly set up (even if it isn't going to make a profit for a while) so that you can contribute that way, but don't quote me...

Have a search around here on the forum for others' advice on how to set up a business etc.  There's plenty of good advice here.

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Thanks very much for prompt replies. Think you could be right on the business front.  I am assuming gite business does not count?  I am concerned about private health insurance as our delayed move from Spain was because I was diagnosed with breast cancer ( v early ) but breast cancer all the same.  I guess I am going to have problems getting cover because of this and it could cost a bomb!  We have 2 kids under 8 ….do they get covered at all automatically by the government or are they classed exactly the same as us and will need to get private cover?

 

Thanks again

 

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I believe that there are ways in which a gite business "counts" if it is properly registered and all cotisations paid etc.  But again, somebody close to this needs to reply really.

Your breast cancer problem would indeed be problematical but there's work going on in the background amongst some in the insurance industry, to try to formulate policies which may help those like you.  See the e-mail I quote from Kurt Harper here

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1017162/ShowPost.aspx

I'll keep everybody updated as to how this is going, but in the meatime, please pm if you decide to go ahead and it may be helpful.

Until the final version of the new rules has been hammered out, I don't know about your children's situation, but keep looking on here and hopefully we'll have some firm news soon.  Anybody with children who is currently in the CMU or on an E106 will know, but I think they are covered currently under the parents' regime, so sadly I think that they may have to be included too.

As much as I hate to say this, the sad fact is that for many, France will not turn out to be the best place to come to right now.  There are many here who may have to up sticks if things go as is feared.

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There is a special filmed report on the changes in France being shown on the BBC news today and Spain tomorrow. I expect it may be shown again on News 24 and possibly the BBC 1 Ten o'clock news tonight.

It did occur to me that if France was imposing the new rules on UK(EU) subjects to save costs, what should be the NHS response to the 200,000 plus French Nationals living in the UK.

Baz

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[quote user="Baz"]It did occur to me that if France was imposing the new rules on UK(EU) subjects to save costs, what should be the NHS response to the 200,000 plus French Nationals living in the UK. - Baz[/quote]

By all accounts, these people are working and paying NI contributions.

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I am sure that Clair is right, I don't know of many French people who retire to an idylic life in the UK!  Although, I must say that my French friends in the UK are there because it's much easier to start a small business there, so we all gain, one way or another through free movement within the EU.
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[quote user="sorchajames"]

 I am assuming gite business does not count?

[/quote]

On the contrary, a properly registered "gite business" certainly does count just the same as any other business. It should be registered at the Chambre de Commerce and you will pay cotisations (which will be far far less than any health insurance). You will be a fully paid up member of the French "system" and all your dependents will be covered too. In this situation an E106 is not relevant anyway and is not required.

To register a gite business you should seek advice froma French accountant who will advise you as to the most favourable tax régime  for your circumstances and guide you through the process - and will do most of the paperwork for you making it a very simple matter.

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Sorchajames - I think that if you are thinking of going into the gites business then it would be wise at this stage of great uncertainty for you to buy an up and running business that has already been registered witht he Chamber of Commerce as a business.  There are suggestions on this forum and others that the rules about registering will now be tightened to exclude the very small businesses but of course we don't know the definition of 'small'.  It makes sense that they will not want all the people with 1 or 2 gites, who have been within the law by not registering in the past, to now register in order to obtain an automatic entry to the health system.

And Eslier, for those of us with gites that might now be thinking of registering, (but legally could choose not to in the past), it would be helpful if you would share more of your experiences about proportion of your gite income that goes on the social charges etc etc and how complex all the paperwork and bookeeping etc is once you are registered (can't imagine any beaurocracy in France will have a 'simple' system

Sorchajames - could you tell us on this forum please, what the detail of the health service was for those Brits who settled in Spain and were not registering for work but living off savings/pensions.  The info on the web is very confusing and the British Embassy Madrid site does not seem to work at the moment when I click onto 'healthcare info' (not that that would necessarily be reliable considering the Britsh Embassy paris site recently!).  I remember a big fuss in the press several years ago about changes to the Spanish health service for retired Brits, but were those already registered with the health service actually thrown out, as the French are proposing to do or was there some compromise/backing down for those already in??

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[quote user="sunshine"]

Sorchajames - could you tell us on this forum please, what the detail of the health service was for those Brits who settled in Spain and were not registering for work but living off savings/pensions.  The info on the web is very confusing and the British Embassy Madrid site does not seem to work at the moment when I click onto 'healthcare info' (not that that would necessarily be reliable considering the Britsh Embassy paris site recently!).  I remember a big fuss in the press several years ago about changes to the Spanish health service for retired Brits, but were those already registered with the health service actually thrown out, as the French are proposing to do or was there some compromise/backing down for those already in??

[/quote]

It may be helpful, BBC News will be reporting today on the situation of the Spanish healthcare for Brits settled in the country. I would anticipate the report will be shown on BBC 1 News at 1.00pm, 6.00pm and 10.00pm providing time permits. Also probably through out the day on BBC News 24.

Baz

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Hi,

Well, we have been living in Spain for only the last 5 years and have been paying private medical insurance, so I am not an expert on the Spanish system but will attempt to tell you what I understand.  Firstly, it seems cheaper to get private medical insurance in Spain....we are a family of 4 ( 2 adults and 2 children ) in our 40s and it costs us just over €2000 and that covers everything.  What I don't really understand about France is that are you not able to make voluntary contributions to the social security system to allow you medical cover?  In Spain you can choose to make voluntary contributions, I think the minimum is about 200€ per month and this gets you into the spanish health system and also give you some sort of pension.  Some early retired's do this and others just wing it and use their EHIC for years and the Spanish seem not to bother about this ( I am not recommeding this myself ).  The problem with winging it is that you get the basic treatment but no after care etc.  Others, like ourselves, pay for private medical insuance which as I say, is more affordable in Spain ( as is the cost of living, although not house prices! ). Is there no way you can contribute voluntarily in France or is that the whole point? 

Also, I dont understand to start a business you need a carte de sejour but you can't get that without medical insurance?  So, would you have to get medical insurance before setting up a business to get you your carte de sejour?   Confusing!

Hope this help,

 

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[quote user="sunshine"]

It makes sense that they will not want all

the people with 1 or 2 gites, who have been within the law by not

registering in the past, to now register in order to obtain an

automatic entry to the health system.

And Eslier, for those of us with gites that might now be thinking of

registering, (but legally could choose not to in the past), it would be

helpful if you would share more of your experiences about proportion of

your gite income that goes on the social charges etc etc and how

complex all the paperwork and bookeeping etc is once you are registered

(can't imagine any beaurocracy in France will have a 'simple' system

[/quote]

Firstly, there are many Brits already running gites here in France who

should be registered anyway but aren't. So, many of these people who

think they are "within the law" probably aren't (I'm sure you aren't

one of those people sunshine).  For anyone who relies upon gites as

their main source of earned income (i.e. more than 50%) then they are

legally required to register anyway, even under current / recent past

laws - this is not likely to change. Likewise, anyone earning more than

23000€ per year from their gites, regardless of whether it is their

main source of income, is also required by law to register.

Registration is not a difficult process but, as with any business, you

do need to budget carefully for all the costs involved. Cotisations may

be higher in the first two years but will level out in due course. The

actual cost of registering is nominal.  

As an example, I have a business with a turnover of about 70k€ and this

year have paid about 4k€ in cotisations and no tax whatsoever (well, I

had a bill for 9€ from the impots but they said they couldn't be

bothered to collect it as it was less than 12€). I pay about another

1k€ in fees to my excellent accountant. All the paperwork is dealt with

by my accountant so other than keeping my business accounts I have very

little to do. I've never even filled in a tax return as this is all

done for me. My accountant comes to the house about three times a year

and we go through the paperwork. I must stress however that this is

only my example and everone's situation will be different - the best

way to find out what your costs are likely to be is to speak to an

accountant. Remember, a good firm of accountants will save you far more

money than they charge you.
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[quote user="sorchajames"]

Also, I dont understand to start a business you need a carte de sejour but you can't get that without medical insurance?  So, would you have to get medical insurance before setting up a business to get you your carte de sejour?   Confusing!

[/quote]

No, you don't need a Carte Vitale or E106 or anything like that to start a business if you are and EU citizen.  When you register your business, you will be alocated an Independent Caisse de Maladie and this organisation will issue you, and any other dependent members of your family, with your Carte Vitale.

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