disapointing answer to UK parliamentary question

[Helen]

I searched but I haven't seen this else where

Mr. Streeter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) if he will negotiate a reciprocal agreement with the French government to enable retired British citizens living in France to access French healthcare without private medical insurance; [163052]

(2) what estimate he has made of the number of British citizens living in France who will be affected by the French Government’s decision to change healthcare law; [163053]

(3) what advice he has received on the legality under EU law of the French government’s decision to change its rules regarding access to healthcare for British Citizens. [163054]

Dawn Primarolo: The position of British citizens living in France who are covered by European Union reciprocal agreements has not changed and they will still receive state provided healthcare in France. This means that retired people in receipt of United Kingdom state pension are still able to access state healthcare in France.

The changes to the French system affect early retirees from other member states including the UK who are not covered by EU regulations and have not lived in France long enough to meet their residency requirements. It is not known how many people are affected.

Health and social security systems differ in each member state. Who and what is covered is a matter for each individual state in this instance France. There are no plans to negotiate an agreement with France that goes beyond existing ones. It is critical that people consider how they will access healthcare when they move abroad.

[woolybanana]

Did you really expect anything else?

[chris pp]

Seems straight forward, a concise answer that clearly states the situation, doesn't it?

Chris

[Helen]

Yes its clear but I find it rather dismissive in tone... it does not clarify  French residence criteria. It does not mention any on going discussions which the Embassy claim to be having and it suggests that people have not done their research before moving to another country.

[Glyn]

Its a bit scary that she does not know how many people may be affected and who may be returning to the UK, putting more burden on the NHS. But then when the same Government can 'lose' the personal records of  25 million people, what would you expect.[:)]

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="Glyn"]Its a bit scary that she does not know how many people may be affected and who may be returning to the UK, putting more burden on the NHS. But then when the same Government can 'lose' the personal records of  25 million people, what would you expect.[:)][/quote]

 

Not scary at all. In fact I would be scared if they did know how many were going to be affected

The DPW will know how many have E106,s and E121,s   but how would the government of the UK know how many are in between,working in France for a coy,Self employed, been here more than 5 years,have moved to another country or back to the UK, married to a French national .

If they knew the answers to all these circumstances then Big Brother would be watching us

 

[Boiling a frog]

I think the answer is in the question. Why did he ask about retired people, most of whom are in receipt of E121, covered under European Law, and not affected by the changes?

The other questions therefore become irrelevant.

In my opinion the whole problem legally is whether France is correctly applying Eureopean Directives and whether, where they are,  they allow concessions for British citizens who would suffer because of the changes.

For the first part the means of challenge is for the parties affected to challenge the matter through the Eureopean Courts.

The second part where France is deemed to be acting legally is though diplomatic discussion ie the Embassy and the FCO. Diplomatic discussions are rarely made public as the whole point is to gain as much  as you can without the other side losing face. The outcome will only be known when the French publish the new revised rules officially because until then they can change their minds again. The Embassy the FCO and the British Government cannot comment in case they jeopardise the agreement. 

 

[Tony F Dordogne]

We already know that there are c.7500 people here with E106s (or was it E108s), that information was made public right at the beginning of this saga.

But they can't say how many people are here with an E121 which is worrying because the UK's picking up the bill for it.

[woolybanana]

She does not give a Sweet Fanny Adams about a bunch or early retired expats? Why should she or the FO or the Govt?

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]

We already know that there are c.7500 people here with E106s (or was it E108s), that information was made public right at the beginning of this saga.

But they can't say how many people are here with an E121 which is worrying because the UK's picking up the bill for it.

[/quote]

 

That was NOT the question Mr Streeter asked

He asked

2) what estimate he has made of the number of British citizens living in France who will be affected by the French Government’s decision to change healthcare law;

 

E121 holders are not affected  so the only ones who are affected are E106 holders ,of which we do have a figure,and the others,No E106,No E121,Not working,Been here less than 5 years etc etc as I previously said.

The only ones who could possibly know the answer is the French Securite Sociale,and do you imagine for one minute that the French Govt are going to answer a query from the UK Govt with the expense involved in compiling figures which may be inacurate.

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="Helen"]

Yes its clear but I find it rather dismissive in tone... it does not clarify  French residence criteria. It does not mention any on going discussions which the Embassy claim to be having and it suggests that people have not done their research before moving to another country.

[/quote]

 

We all already know French residence criteria. 5 years stable and uninterrupted residence to become a permanent resident. It is contained in the laws frequently quoted on this and other forums.

[woolybanana]

She probably is ignorant on this subject. Trouble is we are the wrong ethnic group.[6] (I only use 'we' for effect as I am not so Brit as to vote or to be over concerned except to be deeply insulted that my birth country should still be a criterion for discussing or legislating anything.)

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="Puzzled"]

[quote user="woolybanana"]She does not give a Sweet Fanny Adams about a bunch or early retired expats? Why should she or the FO or the Govt?[/quote]

 

She and they should because;

We are British nationals,

Many of us still have to pay our taxes in the UK and have retained our right to vote in the UK,

The UK is part of the EU and it is an EU Directive that is being badly interpreted / applied.

Despite this being a hot topic, she still has no idea of the issues and has made herself look like an ignorant prat!

[/quote]

 

She answered a badly worded question

Mr. Streeter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) if he will negotiate a reciprocal agreement with the French government to enable retired British citizens living in France to access French healthcare without private medical insurance; [163052]

(2) what estimate he has made of the number of British citizens living in France who will be affected by the French Government’s decision to change healthcare law; [163053]

(3) what advice he has received on the legality under EU law of the French government’s decision to change its rules regarding access to healthcare for British Citizens. [163054]

Dawn Primarolo: The position of British citizens living in France who are covered by European Union reciprocal agreements has not changed and they will still receive state provided healthcare in France. This means that retired people in receipt of United Kingdom state pension are still able to access state healthcare in France.

The changes to the French system affect early retirees from other member states including the UK who are not covered by EU regulations and have not lived in France long enough to meet their residency requirements. It is not known how many people are affected.

Health and social security systems differ in each member state. Who and what is covered is a matter for each individual state in this instance France. There are no plans to negotiate an agreement with France that goes beyond existing ones. It is critical that people consider how they will access healthcare when they move abroad.

1)  There is no need to negotiate a reciprocal agreement Retired British citizens are entitled to an E121 and receive health care in France

What he should have asked was whether they will negotiate an agreement with the French Govt to enable inactives already resident in France to access health care in France

2) If Mr Streeter knew his stuff he would realise that the UK Govt have no way of knowing how many will be affected.

3)He should also have been aware that the French are entitled to change their health care system for inactives as EU directives on Social security and Health provisions only apply to Workers or those seeking work and retired people not to inactives.

So all in all it is Mr Streeter to blame for submitting a badly worded question in the first place which was answered accurately

 

[woolybanana]

Like I said, the minister is ignorant and doesn't give a monkeys anyway.

[mint]

Wooly

As a banana, I wouldn't mention monkeys so readily if I were you.  Sorry, just joking with Wooly.  And yes, I agree it's all most disappointing.

[Joshua]

Dear Joshua

 

"Thank you for the comments you left on the

Conservatives Abroad blog.

 We have now received the answers to Gary

Streeter’s Parliamentary Questions, which can be viewed on the

Conservatives Abroad website.

 We are disappointed by the non-committal answer given

by the Minister. The people who are going to be affected by the French

Governments decision fully researched how they would access healthcare when

they moved abroad  to live in France, and it is important to look into how

they can remaining the system. Gary Streeter is now calling on the Government

to do more to help those who are affected.

 We will keep you informed on the Conservatives Abroad

website when we receive more news.

 Kind Regards

 Michael Rutt"

They might not have got the questions worded just right but at least these guys seem to care about us, Joshua[:D]

[Sunday Driver]

You make the mistake of thinking that politicians actually care about us.

Streeter make a fundimental error in asking the wrong question.  The minister will have thought it was her birthday because she didn't have to answer the real question. The Conservatives now see an opportunity to have a go at the Labour government.

It's called politics....

 

[bedders]

Mr banana (wooly or otherwise) I couldn't agree more about Ms Dawn Prim & Proper. You may remember when she was at the treasury, and was torn to shreds over her handling  of the IR 35 business.

The lights are on, but nobody is in.

Bedders

[woolybanana]

Havent been for a bloody long time if you ask me. Almost as bad as Belgian politicians and that is a real insult.

[Joshua]

SD

 I did say "seem to care"

Like you, I'm sure,  I probably sent 40 to 50 emails to MP's and MEP's and more letters than I can count

and whether they care or not, at least they replied which is more than nearly all of them bothered to do.

I trust politicians nearly as much as  Health Insurance Company Rep's

Bikers rule, until their big ends go

Joshua[:D]