LATEST ANNOUNCEMENT PUBLISHED BY FRENCH GOVERNMENT

[Danny]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

It's that bl**din' hairdresser again!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/15/wexpat115.xml

Typical, even though I emphasised the point about 20 times, our healthcare under the state system was still "free" I notice. Humph.

Get posting on the feedback, and point out that it isn't, please!

[/quote]

Am I the only who can't see any mention of "free" health care in the article? Has it been changed? or am I totally blind?

Danny

[Chas]

[quote user="Jane and Danny"][quote user="cooperlola"]

It's that bl**din' hairdresser again!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/15/wexpat115.xml

Typical, even though I emphasised the point about 20 times, our healthcare under the state system was still "free" I notice. Humph.

Get posting on the feedback, and point out that it isn't, please!

[/quote]

Am I the only who can't see any mention of "free" health care in the article? Has it been changed? or am I totally blind?

Danny

[/quote]

The article has been updated at 11.42am. This paragraph previously said "free french health care" --

"Whereas expatriates would, under the old system, then automatically be covered by French health care, they will now have to wait a further two-and-a-half years before qualifying."

 

[cooperlola]

deleted

Sorry to have had to do this, but I cannot go into the reasons for this unfortunately, although anybody who wants to know more can pm me.  Suffice it to say, that subsequent to my request to the journalist in question, he has had the piece on the website edited to make it factual.  He will do a follow up piece later.

[Will]

That's good. But a great pity the Telegraph article couldn't have used the correct wording in the first place (not the writer's fault by all accounts). Then we maybe would not have had to wade through such a mire of misinformed comment from the little Englanders. A good job some familiar people from here have made some comparatively sane comments, as well as 'outing' the obvious freeloaders. 

When will Telegraph/Mail readers come to understand how the EU works, and in particular how its member states organise their health and social security systems in totally different ways, which make it impossible to have a totally universal and waterproof reciprocal arrangement between all countries? How many of those who pontificate have ever been to Brussels and stepped through the EU's hallowed portals?

Edit - my 'that's good' comment referred to an earlier post that said the web version of the Telegraph article had been corrected. But that post has now been deleted, so I don't know if it is good or not. The rest of my post still stands though.

Further edit - loks like it is good then.

[poleta]

The article has been amended yet again, to incluce a link to an Owen Pratt article which contains a description of our "gravy train" lifestyle here.

[Glyn]

Poleta,

Was your miss spelling of the authors name intentional. His real name is Platt but yours is more appropriate[;-)]

[poleta]

[quote user="Glyn"]

Poleta,

Was your miss spelling of the authors name intentional. His real name is Platt but yours is more appropriate[;-)]

[/quote]

I apologise unreservedly to Mr Pratt (shorely shome mishtake here - ed)

[EBME]

There is an interesting summary of the new law to be found @

www.french-property.com/newsletter/2007/12/14/

Hope this helps

 

[Will]

[quote user="poleta"]The article has been amended yet again, to incluce a link to an Owen Pratt article which contains a description of our "gravy train" lifestyle here.[/quote]

I happen to think that Mr Platt is entitled to his views, and I agree with many of his comments. Unfortunately he, like 99% of the British in France, comes across as a smug, self-opinionated git who is in France for his own benefit rather than for any genuine and long-felt desire to live there. And before anybody onbjects, you can include me in that category if you wish.

For real 'uninformed tosh' look no further than the three responses his article has attracted so far.

[Tony F Dordogne]

If the 'Sheila' who posted - twice - on the Telegraph web site, telling the whole world how she's on the fiddle, is using this Forum - YOU'RE ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THIS TURMOIL HAS STARTED because you're too bloody daft to get your life organised properly and pay your taxes and healthcare charges in France, which is where you've chosen to live, nobody forced you to come here so don't brag about the way you live here, effectively illegally.

Sorry folks, after everything that's happened over the past few weeks and the heartache that the decision making process has caused many good people, that sort of posting just makes my blood boil! 

 

[Glyn]

Will,

What 'uniformed tosh' are you refering to. The responses seem to be far more informed than Mr Platt's original article.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Glyn"]

Will,

What 'uniformed tosh' are you refering to. The responses seem to be far more informed than Mr Platt's original article.

[/quote]That bloke Glyn sounds as if he knows what he's talking about.[;-)]

[Clair]

That hairdresser woman gets everywhere!!![Www]

http://www.arcamax.com/newsheadlines/s-274047-500381?source=1930

[Clair]

[quote user="Cat"]I'm not sure if the circulaire itself has actually been posted here or not, but I've just come across it, so thought I would post a direct link

http://www.securite-sociale.fr/comprendre/europe/europe/0711123_circ_dss_cmu_ue.pdf

[/quote]

I have finished translating this circulaire, which outlines the way the CPAMs will consider and review CMU applications.

Please email (not PM) me for a copy of the document...

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Clair"][quote user="Cat"]I'm not sure if the circulaire itself has actually been posted here or not, but I've just come across it, so thought I would post a direct link

http://www.securite-sociale.fr/comprendre/europe/europe/0711123_circ_dss_cmu_ue.pdf

[/quote]

I have finished translating this circulaire, which outlines the way the CPAMs will consider and review CMU applications.

Please email (not PM) me for a copy of the document...

[/quote]

We will endeavour to get the translation up on the site also.

Thanks to Clair for sending it to us.  I hope the CPAMs make sense of it, and in our favour!

www.frenchhealthissues.eu

[AnOther]

I'm confused by the article in French-property where it says:

" UPDATE 17/12 From communications we have had with the Caisse National it would also seem that those who resettled in France with a medical condition that prevents them getting private insurance will, in principal, have access to the CMU"

Firstly what exactly does "resettled" mean. Does it mean less than 5 years official and legal residence ?

If so, taken literally, it implies that anyone with an uninsurable medical condition will be allowed into CMU and if that were the case it would virtually negate the entire bruhaha wouldn't it ?

Both 'er indoors and your's truly have such conditions so does this mean we can throw away our E106 and dive straight into CMU on the strength of them, I rather fancy not !

[cooperlola]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

I'm confused by the article in French-property where it says:

" UPDATE 17/12 From communications we have had with the Caisse National it would also seem that those who resettled in France with a medical condition that prevents them getting private insurance will, in principal, have access to the CMU"

Firstly what exactly does "resettled" mean. Does it mean less than 5 years official and legal residence ?

If so, taken literally, it implies that anyone with an uninsurable medical condition will be allowed into CMU and if that were the case it would virtually negate the entire bruhaha wouldn't it ?

Both 'er indoors and your's truly have such conditions so does this mean we can throw away our E106 and dive straight into CMU on the strength of them, I rather fancy not !

[/quote]The statement is so ambiguous it is scarey and both IFP and we are trying to get to the bottom of this.  However, it seems - to my personal reading - to suggest that this only applies to those who complied with the residency rules as they stood on arrival.  Ergo, not those who settle after the statement date - but it may mean that you will be OK and that, because of your pre-exisiting conditions you will be allowed to join the CMU under the old rules.

" refus d’assurance en cas de maladie grave, non prévisible au moment du changement de résidence"

Roughly : refusal of insurance due to grave illness, unforseeable at the moment of a
change of residence"

Depends if you take that to mean that you couldn't forsee that you would have been unable to get insurance (because you were correct at the time in assuming that you would be allowed CMU entry) or that you couldn't foresee the illness!

So much is left to the discretion of the CPAMs, though, that to be honest, we do not know until a few people begin to try this!

[Clair]

I have received numerous requests for the translated text, so I am posting it here to make it available to all, despite its length!

Please remember this is NOT an official translation.

1) Principles and limitations of freedom of movement and right to reside for EU nationals and their family

Article 18 of the Treaty establishing the European Community guarantees

that "every citizen of the Union has the right to move and reside

freely within the territory of Member States, subject to the

limitations and conditions laid down in this Treaty and the provisions

taken to its application". Article 12 states that" within the scope of

this Treaty, and without prejudice to the provisions it provides, any

discrimination on grounds of nationality is prohibited."

It is clear from these provisions that a citizen of the Union shall

have full freedom of movement within the European Union and that no

residence permit may be required of him.

However, the freedom of settlement and residence of EU nationals is

dependent on the existence, or non- existence, of a right of residence

for himself and members of his family, as equal treatment exists only

to the extent that the right of abode exists.

This right to reside, which is specified by Directive 2004/38 and

relevant articles of the code of the entry and stay of foreigners and

asylum (CESEDA), is appraised according to the category to which the EU

national and his family members belong at the time of their stay in the

host country (workers, students, unemployed). It should be noted that

in each case, the family members accompanying the EU national (parents,

spouse or partner, direct descendants, and so on.) will be granted a

right of residence derived from that of the person they accompany.

For a comprehensive overview of the situations please refer to Annex 1 of this circular.

Limitations to the right of residence are applicable, particularly for

inactive EU nationals and students, whose stay is deemed legal only if

they satisfy two conditions:

•   Holding health insurance for themselves and their families when they accompany them;

• - Having sufficient resources to avoid becoming a burden on the social assistance system of the receiving State.

When these two conditions are no longer met, the right to reside

automatically disappears and the persons' stay becomes unlawful.

In this case and as regards health insurance, they would come under the

provision of urgent care, as provided by Article L. 254-1 of the code

of social work and families, if they have been in France for less than

three months, or the Aide Médicale de l'Etat, under article L.251-1 of

the same code, if they have resided in France for more than three

months, as long as they meet the relevant conditions (resources ceiling

not exceeded). It is worth remembering that under-age children of

applicants are not subject to any time deadlines for access to AME

during the first three months of their stay in France. As dependents,

they benefit from their parents' admission to the AME.

However, the fact that one or other conditions might no longer be met

at a given time will not necessarily imply the removal of the right to

reside.

Indeed, if certain conditions are met, the right to stay will remain

for the EU national and for his family members (see the notion of

accident of life in 3.2).

At the same time, and whatever the status of family members in relation

to the two conditions, they benefit from the right to stay where they

were accompanying an EU citizens who has died, divorced or permanently

left the host State (see in particular paragraph 2 of Annex 1).

This maintained right, which perpetuates the beneficiary's right to

reside, has for consequence that recourse to the host State welfare is

still available, especially when the loss of the right to reside is

caused by an accident of life.

In the long term, however, the person concerned should not become an

unreasonable burden on the host country, at the risk of losing the

right to reside.

It should be noted that beyond a period of steady and uninterrupted

residence of 5 years, any EU national acquires a right of permanent

residence in the host country.

With this legal framework in mind, the consequences with regards to

access to basic CMU base and, where appropriate, complementary CMU,

must be considered from two angles:

• EU nationals and their families who wish to settle in France;

• EU nationals already benefiting from basic CMU and, where applicable, complementary CMU.

2) EU nationals wishing to settle in France

2.1) Principle of inaccessibility to basic CMU and complementary CMU 

Article L.380-1 of the Social Security Code and, by reference, Article

L 861-1 of the same code, open access to basic CMU and complementary

CMU to people who have no right to any other health insurance scheme,

as long as they have a "stable and regular residence in France or in a

overseas department".

Thus an inactive or student EU

national who settled in France when he has insufficient resources and /

or no health insurance cover does not have a right to reside. In this

case, access to basic CMU and complementary CMU will be refused by

right and he must insure his health by subscribing to a health

insurance.

However,

the EU laws applicable in the field of coordination of social security

systems help to ensure that some of those affected will retain

continuity of rights, which will be either permanent or temporary, depending on their situation.

To the extent that the persons concerned are not always informed of

these opportunities, it is down to the CPAMs to remind those concerned

whenever necessary, of the conditions under which a continuity of

rights regarding health insurance is possible by a health cover other

than the French health cover.

To this end, please find in annexe 2 the different situations under

which persons can find themselves, in order to advise them, if they

have not already taken the necessary steps.

2.2) The exception to the principle: the recourse to the concept of accident of life

2.2.1) The theory of the accident of life

When an inactive person who had a right to reside seeks access to the CMU because he/she no longer has health insurance cover, this access should not be systematically refused.

A more detailed study of the situation should be undertaken.

Although

the right to reside exists only as long as the conditions it was

acquired under continue to be fulfilled (particularly with regards to

having adequate resources and healthcare cover for the inactive), the

Court of Justice and Directive 2004/38 has taken into account the need

for financial solidarity

to nationals in the receiving State with those of other member states,

"especially if the difficulties encountered by the beneficiary of the

right of residence are temporary (See aff . C-184/99, Rudy Grzelczyk c

/ Centre public d’aide sociale d’Ottignies-Louvain-la-Neuve, ECJ, 20 September 2001).

These

provisions mean that the CPAM could be faced with requests to from

persons who met the original terms of the right to stay, but no longer meet them because of new circumstances, .

This

may be a request from the EU national on his own behalf and on behalf

of his family. This may also be a request from a family member

accompanying the EU national, made after the EU national's death or

divorce for example (see the conditions described in paragraph 2 of Annex 1 about retaining the right).

The theory of the accident of life does not mean the immediate loss of the previously acquired right to reside and, depending on the circumstances, can lead to the payment of a benefit (RMI) or to a right to access the CMU.

Thus two situations are possible:

• Since
  his/her arrival in the country, the person has never had enough
  resources to guaranteeing his/her financial autonomy nor a
  comprehensive health cover.

The

person's continuity of stay of in the country cannot give him/her

access to at right that he/she did not on his/her arrival. Access to

the basic CMU as well as, where appropriate, complementary CMU must be

refused.

• The person has, in the past, had adequate resources to ensure his/her financial autonomy as well as a comprehensive health cover.

The accident of life (loss of employment, separation from or death of a

spouse, desertion, denial of insurance in the event of a serious illness and not foreseeable at the time of relocation…) can lead to request access the CMU. Basic CMU can be granted, as well as, where applicable, complementary CMU.

 

The proviso of this law is that "the beneficiaries should not become an

"unreasonable" burden on the public finances of the host Member State."

NB: The incident of life must be beyond the person's control.

Thus, an application by an EU national who voluntarily terminates

his/her health cover contract to request access to the CMU should not

be accepted. By voluntarily terminating his/her health insurance

contract, he/she loses the right to reside, and as he/she will be no

longer residing lawfully, he/she cannot benefit from the CMU.

2.2.2) The requirements for entitlement to basic CMU and complementary CMU

An applicant who claims to have suffered an accident of life must demonstrate that:

    1. The person had, in the past,

acquired the right to reside and specifically had adequate resources to

ensure his/her financial autonomy as well as a comprehensive health

insurance cover.

The range of

evidence required can include a request for any useful document, in

order to determine whether the person had sufficient resources to

support himself/herself when he/she she arrived in France. Proof of

health insurance must be provided.

    2. The

person must also provide evidence to prove his/her current situation

(legal proceedings underway in the case of a separation, spouse's death

certificate, etc...) and demonstrate the impact of the event in

question on his/her ability to maintain his/her health insurance cover

(loss of income making it impossible to finance cover).

    3. Finally, the person must prove, in terms of common law, his/her stable residence in France, with

interruptions not exceeding three months (except for the categories

exempted from that period and included in article R . 380-1 CSS). This

justification will have to be provided, particularly once the registration process with the mayor of the municipality of residence in the first three months of arrival of the person concerned

has become  effective. The attestation will at least allow the

applicant to prove the date the start of his/her residence (see

articles L 121-2 and R. 121-5 of the Code des étrangers quoted above).

If the person has difficulty proving his/her right to stay, he/she

should be advised to apply for a residence permit at the prefecture (a

residence permit must be issued on request, Article L 121-2 of the

Code).

The service des étrangers

of each prefecture will be best able to assess  the right of residence

of EU nationals, since it is responsible for implementing the

provisions of CESEDA and for delivery of a residence card to EU

nationals who request one. Its involvement can also be requested either

by the applicant or on the initiative of the CPAM, for the resolution

of contested cases.

The use of the concept of an accident of life can occur in two instances:

• The CPAM files a request without the applicant having made an application for other benefits, such as RMI with the competent
  CAF. The CPAM will be responsible for examining the validity of the
  claim and will evaluate the application based on the evidence described
  above;

• The
  applicant has already benefited from a positive decision to an
  application for RMI, based on the criteria set by the Information Note
  DGAS/1C/2005/165 2 dated 4 March 2005, or any other social benefit. In
  this context, access to basic CMU and complementary CMU is granted by
  rights and no other inquiry by the CPAM is necessary.

In the latter case, I would like to remind you that it is essential

that the agency which issued the social benefit alert the relevant CPAM

if a review of the case led to the suspension of the benefit. Indeed, in such a case, access to the CMU must by reviewed.

Finally, I draw your attention to the fact that any refusal of access to the CMU must be justified. To be valid, the written refusal must, as appropriate, be based directly on non-residence in France or on the lack of proof, as submitted by the applicant, that he/she has, at some point, acquired the right to reside France whilst having adequate financial resources and a comprehensive health cover.

3) Review the rights of people already benefiting from basic CMU and, where applicable, complementary CMU

Some inactive nationals residing in our country currently benefit from

basic CMU or, where applicable, complementary CMU and, this, in two

possible instances.

A) Some people receive non-contributory welfare

benefits (RMI, etc. ASPA), which have granted them them automatic

rights to basic CMU and complementary CMU: In this case, the CPAM has

no real power to investigate, as allocation of basic CMU and

complementary CMU is ipso facto and therefore automatic. Under these

circumstances, only a review of the rights or social benefits which

have opened access to CMU can lead to a withdrawal of the the holder's CMU cover.

If such a review takes place, for example at the initiative of the CAF

regarding the RMI, the relevant CPAM must be advised, so that it can

take the person's change of circumstances into account and take appropriate action with regard to access to the CMU.

B) Some

inactive nationals were granted CMU cover in accordance with circular

DSS/2A/DAS/DPM 2000/239 dated 3 May 2000, although they would had to

have a medical coverage prior to their installation in France:

Indeed,

as regards nationals who, contrary to the legislation in force, have

benefited from access to basic CMU at a time when the matter of the

legality of their stay was seen as pre-agreed, any refusal to continue

their affiliation is tantamount to a challenge to their

already-recognised right to reside.

In the first instance, the CPAMs should consider these people's situation, in order to determine if they meet one or more of the following conditions:

•      Either a right of permanent residence in France (see in particular paragraph 4).

•     
  Either a right to a French retirement pension, in the event that they
  have worked in our country and have attained the age of 60 years. In
  this context, their retirement pension, however small, give them the
  right to French health coverage ;

•     
  Either a right to an old-age pension in their country of origin or in
  another Member State, and in this instance, they will be invited to
  provide a form E121, so that their own health insurance be supported by
  the state in charge of their old-age pension.

When this case by case review does not grant access to a medical cover, those concerned will be kept under French health insurance through basic CMU.

Depending on the case, vigilance must be applied to any change of

situation, especially for those who would later hold an old-age

pension. In the event that an old-age pension grants them access to a medical cover, this fact should be pointed out to those concerned and taken into account.

Of course, this whole analysis must take into consideration the notion

of dependants, as defined by articles L. 161-14 and L 313-3 of the CSS.

4) The acquisition of a permanent right to reside after 5 years of regular and uninterrupted residence

A right of permanent residence is acquired

after five years of uninterrupted and regular residence in the host

country. This is stated in Article 16 of Directive 2004/38, transposed

notably by Article L 122-1 of the Code of entry and residence of

foreigners quoted above.

The right to permanent residence,

which comes under the jurisdiction of prefectures with a possible link

with the social agencies concerned, will be considered, if necessary,

on the basis of the circumstances which have led the persons concerned

to benefit from a right to reside under articles R. 121-6 and R. 121-9

of the Code of entry and residence of foreigners quoted above.

The decision of the prefectures will allow to conclude if access to the CMU is to be granted or not.

5) Investigation of EU nationals remaining in the CMU

With regard to people for whom a continuation of access to the CMU is

necessary, we should remember the rules of instruction to be applied,

particularly in relation to EU citizens who have potential financial

resources abroad.

In this regard, I would remind you the need to implement the 3rd

paragraph, first sentence of Article L. 161-1-4 of the Social Security

Code, which provides that, for the provision of means-tested benefits,

benefits and financial resources of foreign origin or paid by an

international organisation must be taken into account when assessing

resources.

This 2006 amendment to the Social Security Code has been mentioned in

circular DSS / DACI No. 367 dated 21 August 2006. It has also led to

the CLEISS

collecting and putting on-line samples of tax forms used by foreign

States, details of which are summarised in the NEWSLETTER No

DSS/DACI/2007/221 dated 4 June 2007.

[cooperlola]

FHI wrote to the Embassy in Paris on Christmas Eve. 

http://www.frenchhealthissues.eu/letters/letter_to_uk_embassy.htm

This morning, we received the following reply

"Thank you for your comments. We understand the urgency of your request. We
have been in regular contact with the French health authorities on this
issue and have described the situation E106 holders find themselves in, so
that the French government was aware of the consequences when coming to
their decision.

We are now awaiting an official response from the Health Minister so that
people in these specific circumstances have clearer guidance to follow and
will post an update on our website as soon as we can. In the meantime, the
CNAM remains the source for information on individual cases. "

At least it proves that they have not let this rest.  We will keep you posted.