CMU Ejections : YOUR HELP IS NEEDED

[cooperlola]

I spoke to the Embassy yesterday, and they are confident that a new statement to CPAMs is in the pipeline.  In the meantime, they are anxious to know which CPAMs are still refusing to acknowlege the December statement, and to find out if there are any specific offices who may have refused entry to E106 holders in desperate situations, who should be accepted under the "accident de vie" provisions.  I do not need any personal details here, simply the location of your CPAM, your situation (E106 expiree with/without pre-existing conditions; CMU subscriber with or without 5 years' continuous legal residence etc.) so that we can do an analysis for them.

Please pm me if you can help.  Thanks.

[Clair]

bump

[cooperlola]

Thanks Clair.  No responses thus far, so obviously everybody has been allowed to stay in CMU, no probs, then.....

Seriously, we do need this info', in spite of the new statement today, so please respond if you can help.[:)]

[jalan]

  Situation   ---  Existing  CMU subscriber in excess of 5 years and resident since  July 2001. 

                        Letter from  Narbonne (Aude)  dated 11/1/08 terminating CMU at end of March 2008.  Appeal lodged by Email and registered letter sent to Narbonne  & Carcassonne  immediately  which has yet to be acknowleged let alone answered.

[Sunday Driver]

Exisiting CMU subscriber, received original standard letter from CPAM des Deux-Sevres advising cover will be withdrawn on 31 March 2008.

Following the December announcement by the DSS regarding the reversal of this decision, I now await a letter from the CPAM advising me that the proposed withdrawal will no longer apply and that my exisiting cover will seamlessly continue.  My carte vitale functions as usual and I continue to pay my normal cotisations via URSSAF.

The new position is quite clear, therefore it is pointless my lodging an appeal that will just be overtaken by events....

 

[Btuckey]

We were in the CPAM offices in Limoux on Thursday and the guy in the next cubicle was having great problems trying to get back in.  They called Narbonne and then told the guy that he would have to get private insurance.  After a further robust conversation they told him to produce proof that he was excluded from NHS cover.  I didn't manage to 'earwig' the whole conversation but if he reads this perhaps he can fill in the gaps.  Best of luck to him anyway! 

Cheers

Brian 

[Ron Avery]

As SD says, lets get some perspective here. We had a new attestation from CPAM in December and a recent letter from URSSAF saying when our 4th quarter payment will be taken as I suspect have many others.  Our complementaire has been renewed and we get reinbursements as we have always done.  We had the letters kicking us out of the CMU and URSSAF and then a new Attestation arrived.  Some departments are ahead of others in sorting out the mess.  However, just because you were in the CMU in November 2007 that does not give you the right to continue, if through arrogance, ignorance or just plain "couldn't produce the paper work",  you didn't comply with the request for proof of continued residence requested in September 2007. ie a copy of your French tax return. I know one person who did not do this as he did not want to be identified as an inactif, others, ex service types who never saw the need to complete a French tax return.  As many of us saw by letter in November that failure meant being kicked out of the CMU and had nothing to do with any other policy changes.Also bear in mind, Brian that bloke in the next cubicle may not have had an E 106 or could prove residence for some reason and so is not entitled to CMU cover under the new arrangements anyway.

[Boiling a frog]

Still waiting for CPAM charente to allow me back in,here in France over 5 years residency.However being objective I suspect the problem is that the circular of December never went out to the CPAMs the same as the circular of November did not go out because the British Embassy was still querying some aspects of the rules.The latest circular of Febuary hopefully will go out if no one challenges it with a "What about the E??? people or "What about xxxxxx people"

WE will wait and see.

[cooperlola]

As said above, this exercise is simply to find out if there are any particular CPAMs where large numbers of people are affected, and to get a feel for how the rules have been implemented.  BaF, three CPAMs have already acknowledged the December statement, so clearly this is not a case of the circular not having gone out.  It was - from the info we can gleen - apparently a dispute between CNAM and the ministry (which was what held up its implementation - nothing at all to do with the work being done on behalf of E106 holders in the meantime.)

Thanks, by the way, to all who have responded so far.

[bmt]

We are post-E106 CMU-B subscribers, resident in France for three years.

We received the letter from CPAM in Niort (79) advising that we would be excluded after 31 March 2008 and subsequently a letter from URSSAF advising that our account with them had been closed.  I queried this with URSSAF, who replied that their action was taken on information from CPAM.

We have had no further communication concerning CMU cover from any official source and the last payment was made in September 2007, for 3ème trimestre.  (Aside: Are these paid in arrears or in advance?  Either way, we now owe them money ...)  Prescription charges (ALD 100%) are still being covered by CPAM and I have received the normal statements of account.

I know of others who have been to visit the CPAM office several times, but are no further forward with their return to CMU cover.  Personally, I think there is little point in aggravating the CPAM staff at this stage as they appear to be awaiting their authority to act, but I do get a little edgy with all this brinkmanship.  Meanwhile, my Carte vitale continues to work normally.

[cooperlola]

I am sure that your take on this is correct, bmt, and that the bureaucrats are (for pretty obvious reasons) unwilling to act until they get the proper authority.  However, they did have this in December for those in your situation and nothing happened!  So whilst we are keeping a handle on this - to ensure that it really does get done this time - you are probably correct in waiting - as are all those who have cover until the end of March.  As S/D rightly says above, it is those with no cover at all who need to get sorted first, as they are potentially at risk (and many are probably paying out-of-pocket for medications and treatment.)

Thanks for the info'.

[Catalpa]

Coops, is it worth posting your request on a few AngloInfos - say Normandy, Charente and one further south? Certainly on AngloInfo Normandy, many participants are far less well-informed than on here or, say, TotalFrance which leads to higher levels of panic when they receive letters stating 31 March = Goodbye CMU resulting in visits to CPAM offices. You might get a better impression of the situation via those sites. Or it might be informative to give the English-speaking Helpline (which is still, I believe, CPAM St Lo, Manche - 08.20.90.42.12) a call and ask what they think the situation is for inactifs, 5+ year residents etc.

[Wicce]

Just to let you know that we have today received a letter from our CPAM in St. Brieuc advising that our cover has been extended beyond 31st March 2008 under the residency rule.   You can imagine our relief.

[Kay]

Hi Cooperlola

As requested here is my info to date:  my CPAM office is Beauvais (60013).  I have lived in France since 1 Jan 2003, enjoyed 2 years cover with an E106, and then became affiliated to the CMU in 2005.  I am an early retiree and rely on a pension from my preious employer.  I do have a pre-existing ALD (RA) and have received 100% cover for this since June 2006.

I received two letters (in the same envelope) from CPAM on 15 December.  One (dated 6th) letter telling me how much my cotisation would be for the year from Oct 07 and at the same time informing me that the conditions giving me the right to stay in France had changed, and that I could no longer be affiliated to the CMU.  The second letter (dated 12th) confirmed 'la radiation de l'affiliation au regime general sous critere de residence (CMU de base)' a compter du 1 Avr 08', and gave me two months to contest the decision.   I wrote to contest the decision on 7 Jan 2008 (using your suggested letters as a base for my case) quoting the relevant Securite Social Point d'information.  A couple of days later I received a phone call asking where I had found my information - I had to direct them to the Securite Soc web site!  Needless to say I was informed that I had misunderstood the information given and that it did not apply to me.  I received no written response to this letter.

On 21 Jan I wrote again (sending the letter by registered post this time plus copies to CLEISS and CNAMTS), confirming that I was contesting their decision and included a copy of the letter from the Mme Laflandre plus copies of the info from the Service-Public and Sec Social websites.   This time I did get a written acknowledgment of my letter (dated 22 Jan), but as yet have had no confirmation that I can stay affiliated to the CMU.

Hope this is the sort of info you need.

Thanks for all your hard work on our behalf.

Kay

 

[woolybananasbrother]

So, people who became continuously resident during 2007 but who did not have an E106 would have to wait until they have filled out a tax return in May 2008 for 2007 to prove they are continuously resident?

[Boiling a frog]

[My understanding is that only people with an E106 or in the CMU on 23rd Nov 2007 can now obtain health care via CMU.Otherwise one will have to have 5 years legal residence to obtain CMU

[woolybananasbrother]

I thought it was 'legally resident' on the november date?

[Boiling a frog]

Sorry no

Only E106 holders on 23rd Nov or CMU subscribers on that date will be allowed to have cover via CMU.

http://www.frenchhealthissues.eu/latest_news/02_08_securité_sociale.htm

[woolybananasbrother]

Not a question of sorry, but what has happened to other Europeans in  this? It cannot apply just to Brits or you can imagine how the EU will explode with anger.

[Boiling a frog]

The same rules apply for all EU citizens.

[cooperlola]

  Would you be kind enough to reserve this thread for responses to my appeal for feedback?  Thank you.

Edit: Yes, this rule applies to all non-French EU citizens.  So if any non GB nationals see this, we would of course like to hear from you too.[:)]

[woolybananasbrother]

The European response mentions people in receipt of an old age pension and being over 60 which would be the case in other European countries. But then the problem of the State prépension comes into play. This one is gonna run and run.

[cooperlola]

I am just bumping this up as I am about to do my weekly report to the Embassy re the state of things on the ground.  This week, we know of at least a dozen CPAMs who still steadfastly refuse to admit that anything has changed.  If anybody has had a further refusal/acceptance in the last few days, would they please pm me?

Details as before : CPAM location (and dept no.); whether CMU subscriber/ 5 year resident / E106 holder / pre-existing medical condition etc.  No names or personal details are required.

 

Thanks.

[Graham & Brenda]

It would be interesting to see the list of refusers in order to help me decide what steps to take next. I was thinking of going along to the weekly permanence in the next town to see what the chap had to say before trailing all the way into Angouleme. Until now I have been biding my time so as not to clog things up for people with more serious problems (we are CMU subscribers).

 

Thanks,

 

[cooperlola]

Once I've completed my list, I'll post it, G&B.