cooperlola Posted October 24, 2007 Author Share Posted October 24, 2007 We have today added a "Breaking News" section.Keep looking, and thanks again for everybody's support.http://www.frenchhealthissues.eu/latest_news/growing%20support%2024-10.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Being a holder of an E106 that expires on the 5th with a pre existing condition I am so grateful for your continued efforts on behalf of others in a similar situation to me.Mid December we went into to CPAM and applied for CMU with a letter taken from your website. Towards the end of the month we went back to check on the progress in a very polite manor. The lady was really shirty, jumped out of her seat and said she would get our refusal letter immediatley, and told us there is no right of appeal! 5 minutes later she came back to say our case was being looked into but we would here something soon. Oh and if we wanted to appeal we could!. This was the first unhelpful person I have met in that department. We still have not had a reply but this is to be expected with all the festive holidays. I have just seen your CMU refusal letter - AGAIN- on your website and will certainly use it if I am refused entry. I will also ask the Marie to support us along with my Dr, I thought this may add a little more weight should I have to make an appeal.Thank you soooo soo much for your help and support.As I have so many problems with the Living France forum website, I now check your French Health website first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 The problem with the site is that is riddled with inaccuracies..so it can't be taken seriously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 Well please let us know what they are then we can put them right. Otherwise your remarks are a little pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Here or there?I have already posted a more balanced view:The standard ways of getting Health Cover in France are by payingcontributions, not by right of residence, as with the NHS in the UKTheCMU is not the normal way of obtaining cover, and is not synonymouswith the NHS. There was a atypical period between 2000 and 2007, whenBritish immigrants were allowed into it, but for those who arrivedbefore and those will will arrive after that period , that is not thecase.EMPLOYEDIf you are employed, and pay theappropriate cotisations, then you can enter or remain in the Frenchsystem and will enjoy the same rights as a French national, similarlyemployed.BUSINESSIf you run a registered business, andare paying cotisations, you can enter or remain in the French systemand will enjoy the same rights as a French national running a similarbusiness.THE RETIREDAnybody who has an E121 is unaffected.THE EARLY RETIREDAnybodyarriving in France with an E106, or anybody currently on an E106, willbenefit from healthcare paid for by the UK for the duration of thevalidity of their E106. Immediately after this time the UK will nolonger pay. They will then have to take out full private healthinsurance, to cover them until UK state pensionable age and/or receiptof an E121.This insurance must comply with the French specifications, detailed herehttp://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/WAspad/UnArticleDeCode?code=CSECSOCL.rcv&art=L321-1Anybodywith a pre-existing or chronic medical condition, may appeal to beallowed to join the CMU. The conditions for these appeals are clear. Anybody whose appeal is successful on this basis, will also get coverfor their dependents.Anybody contributing to, or benefiting from, the CMU up to and including 23.11.07 will now be able to remain with it.Anybody arriving in France without an E106 will have to take out private insurance immediately.French insurance companies are beginning to offer full health care packages.FRENCH RESIDENCYAfter 5 years permanent, legal and uninterrupted residence, guaranteed entry into the CMU. SIGNING ONThereis potential to "sign on" as unemployed in France. If you have alreadyworked and paid enough contributions to enter the system this mayqualify you for benefits through the French system (CMU) However, thisis dependent upon financial and employment status so may be of limitedinterest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makfai Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Which bits on the FHI site are wrong? By the way...UK is not just a residence criterion as you will see from the FHI site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 There was a atypical period between 2000 and 2007, when British immigrants were allowed into it, but for those who arrived before and those will will arrive after that period , that is not the case.Hindsight is a wonderful thing ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 But the site implies that it is true for all of us here before 2000..which is not the case..Perhaps foresight for those of us who bothered to work and get into the system wasn't so bad either.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 [quote user="makfai"]Which bits on the FHI site are wrong? By the way...UK is not just a residence criterion as you will see from the FHI site.[/quote]a simple example: "Until 1st October 2007, UK nationals wishing to become resident in France were obliged, under French law, to affiliate, and where appropriate, contribute to the CMU. Comprehensive health insurance was not even an option. "Absolutely not true!I paid Private Health Insurance from 1995 to 1998, when I qualified for the Sécu (NOT the CMU) by cotisations..And I have never been affiliated to the CMU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Where ?The fact is that many Europeans came to live in France on the basis of existing French regulations. What ever your thoughts, mine are that it is morally bankrupt and discriminatory to change the goal posts in such a way that it affects the sick and could endanger life, without putting a safety net in place. It is further discriminatory and illogical to penalize those who you actually have to support for 2 years less than other Europeans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 This is a UK problem, not a French one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 [quote user="Russethouse"]Where ?T It is further discriminatory and illogical to penalize those who you actually have to support for 2 years less than other Europeans.[/quote]Other Europeans pay for their Health care.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 Groslard - I understood your notes above referred to the post which was entitled "the Story so Far" and in the sub forum entitled "Changes to the Healthcare System CMU, Cartes Vitales" and was therefore intended as a summary of the rules and the way in which they affected people who were previously allowed to subscribe to the CMU as pre-retired non French European Union citizens. They are not intended as a summary of the French healthcare system - that is dealt with in the main Health forum and FHI have never had any input into that. Therefore, having read the post again, I still do not believe that it is inaccurate, given its context. Likewise, the first sentence on our site says:"French Health Issues is committed to bringing you as up to date as we can with all the facts and news relating to changes to healthcare provisions for UK nationals, resident in France, or planning to move to France."It is not, and has never been, intended as a guide to the healthcare system in France - it is about ways of dealing with the new regulations and finding alternatives for those affected, and challenging the French Government's interpretation of European residency legislation - which it has used to bring in the new rules. I don't believe anybody has said that the CMU is like the NHS, have they?But as said above, we rely on information received, so if you find any errors on the site, then do let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 [quote user="groslard"][quote user="Russethouse"] Where ?T It is further discriminatory and illogical to penalize those who you actually have to support for 2 years less than other Europeans.[/quote]Other Europeans pay for their Health care..[/quote]Other Europeans who are early retired will generally be allowed to continue to pay into the CMU as they won't have had the "benefit" of E106s so they're mostly fine.btw, FHI is rather more accurate than the French health system's own website which continues to suggest that newly arrived non French European pre retired citizens can still join the CMU if they wish! Maybe you'd care to write to them too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 [quote user="groslard"]This is a UK problem, not a French one.[/quote]How can it be? Britain hasn't changed anything - it's the French that have changed things, according to them, in line with European residence rules.In fact Britain is far more generous to its early retired by giving them a nominal two years of E106 cover. Few other countries offer that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 [quote user="Will"][quote user="groslard"]This is a UK problem, not a French one.[/quote]How can it be? Britain hasn't changed anything - it's the French that have changed things, according to them, in line with European residence rules.In fact Britain is far more generous to its early retired by giving them a nominal two years of E106 cover. Few other countries offer that.[/quote]Well the problem is that Britain doesn't cover people between the end of the E106 and the start of the E121.That is a British decision .I personally am lobbying for the end of both these allowances, since they are illogical given that NHS cover is for people 'normally resident in the UK'I hope a future Government will take the bull by the horns and cut off all allowances from people who have decided to cut themselves off from Britain, and who are the only retirees in Europe who expect to have a first-class Health Service, into which they haven't paid all their working lives, and for which they don't pay now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Thank you for explaining your agenda Groslard, people will understand where you are coming from a little better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 It's not an "agenda" its logical.I have always detested freeloaders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makfai Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 [quote user="groslard"]It's not an "agenda" its logical.I have always detested freeloaders[/quote] I do not understand how people who contribute to the CMU on the same terms as other French residents and who pay local and national taxes are freeloaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 [quote user="groslard"]I personally am lobbying for the end of both these allowances, since they are illogical given that NHS cover is for people 'normally resident in the UK'I hope a future Government will take the bull by the horns and cut off all allowances from people who have decided to cut themselves off from Britain, and who are the only retirees in Europe who expect to have a first-class Health Service, into which they haven't paid all their working lives, and for which they don't pay now[/quote]You may like to take the trouble to do a little research on the facts regarding cross border funding before making such an incorrect, emotive and sweeping statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 But that would take all the fun out of it, Gary. Never spoil a good story for the sake of the truth, as my Dad always used to say. All those euros I paid into the CMU last year were a figment of my imagination, I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makfai Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 [quote user="groslard"][quote user="Will"] [quote user="groslard"]This is a UK problem, not a French one.[/quote]How can it be? Britain hasn't changed anything - it's the French that have changed things, according to them, in line with European residence rules.In fact Britain is far more generous to its early retired by giving them a nominal two years of E106 cover. Few other countries offer that.[/quote]Well the problem is that Britain doesn't cover people between the end of the E106 and the start of the E121.That is a British decision .I personally am lobbying for the end of both these allowances, since they are illogical given that NHS cover is for people 'normally resident in the UK'I hope a future Government will take the bull by the horns and cut off all allowances from people who have decided to cut themselves off from Britain, and who are the only retirees in Europe who expect to have a first-class Health Service, into which they haven't paid all their working lives, and for which they don't pay now[/quote]If you look at ‘Statutory Instrument 2006 No. 1003 The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006’ you will see that your interpretation of NHS cover for people being based on normally resident is not correct. The E106 is an EU wide 'form' not exclusive to the UK. As regards the UK's arrangements, the 'non-employed' version of the form is granted to people who could still get UK short-term Incapacity Benefit if they claimed it. Once their entitlement to claim that benefit expires they are no longer entitled to the E106. To qualify for the entitlement the person must have paid either employed or self-employed NI contributions over the last two complete contribution years. So, having paid contributions and other taxes, the recipients are not freeloading from the UK government when they are granted an E106. It simply certifies that they are entitled to UK short-term Incapacity Benefit if they claimed it As regards freeloading in France, the UK pays France a sum for EU Citizens with an E106 from the UK living in France to cover healthcare costs so they are not 'freeloading' in that respect. What exactly is it that you are trying to stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 [quote user="groslard"][quote user="makfai"]Which bits on the FHI site are wrong? By the way...UK is not just a residence criterion as you will see from the FHI site.[/quote]a simple example: "Until 1st October 2007, UK nationals wishing to become resident in France were obliged, under French law, to affiliate, and where appropriate, contribute to the CMU. Comprehensive health insurance was not even an option. "Absolutely not true!I paid Private Health Insurance from 1995 to 1998, when I qualified for the Sécu (NOT the CMU) by cotisations..And I have never been affiliated to the CMU.[/quote]Are you saying that private health insurance was an allowable option after the 2000 ruling?My understanding is that early retired immigrants from UK had, BY LAW, to be affiliated to the CMU and that PHI was not allowed. Am I wrong?A simple yes or no to each quesion will suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 [quote user="groslard"]It's not an "agenda" its logical.I have always detested freeloaders[/quote]It only seems to be logical to you groslard and many people here may detest your aggressive and combative tone in many of your postings. Mods, I'm offended by this comment - so does it contravene the rules for this Forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Groslard is quite entitled to detest freeloaders and I'm sure his right to express that preference does not contravene the forum rules.However, it is clear from his posts that he has totally misunderstood the facts of the situation, so he has been directing his comments at the wrong people...[8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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