No E106 for Irish Residents?

[Domi]

Good day to you all. I have been following this board with interest as we are moving to Lyon at the end of the month.

I contacted the Irish equivalent of the UK "Newcastle" section but they tell me I am not entitled to an E106. This is for workers being posted abroad who continue to pay social insurance contributions in Ireland. You can only get it if you provide an E101, and I had a look at that one, and we certainly do not qualify.

I had another look on UK sites on criteria needed to obtain an E106 in the UK and it's a bit confusing. Some sites also mentioned that it was for workers posted abroad and others did not.

The Irish dept. tell me that I can use the E111 until and if, we get a job in France, and to get an E104, which I understand from posts on this board is not acceptable.

I also had a look at the CPAM website, which has a section specifically for British citizens, and it definitely mention that you need an E106.

The Irish dept. cannot understand why an E106 would be issued by the UK dept under different criteria and why there is a different interpretation in the UK.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that medical expenses incurred by British people in France are eventually re-imbursed by the UK government? if so, medical coverage in the UK and Ireland are quite different. For example, when you go to the doctor in Ireland, you pay for the doctor yourself unless you have a medical card (which I don't) and you are not re-imbursed, whereas visits to a GP are free in the UK.

Does this make sense?

For the time being, I have transferred my Irish private medical insurance to a "global" insurance which will cover us and I suppose we will just have to join the French medical system asap.

As our insurance has to be taken for a minimum of six months, I wonder whether this was such a good idea as we will have to contribute 8% of our revenues in France, and will therefore end up paying twice.

I was reading an article on a website called "French Entree" which states that the timing for joining the CMU in France is important and that the financial consequences of joining too early can be very serious: I have no idea what this means. Any ideas???

Thanks in advance for any advice and thoughts.

Dominique

[Will]

LAST EDITED ON 09-Jul-04 AT 12:06 PM (BST)

Don't worry, there is a lot of confusion and conflicting advice about E forms from Newcastle too.

I believe that the French Entre article was written by Peter Owen, a health insurance professional who often contributes to this forum, so I'll let him provide the clarification - I wouldn't want to misinterpret his words. He also knows a lot about E forms. What I will say, however, is that I don't think an E106 is necessarily solely for people working overseas. Newcastle seems to hand them out to those who are early retired (i.e. not working but not eligible for E121) or who are setting up businesses or seeking work - as long as their UK NI contribution record is adequate.

If you intend to work in France on a permanent basis you need to sign up to the French health system, so you won't need an E form. However if you are working temporarily (either employed or self employed) - and not being sure if, and how long, you will be staying in France can count as working temporarily - you should be able to get cover. Many English people in this position have been issued with E106s, others have been refused. If you are working temporarily and are refused an E106 you may be entitled to an E101/E128 which gives you 'migrant worker' status and thus equivalent healthcare to a full-time French resident. My experience is that these will be issued for a 12-month period (unlike the E106) and can be renewed, but renewal is a tedious and drawn-out process (involving yet another form, the E103) which the French authorities will only approve once, so after two years you have to join, and pay into, the French system.

I'm surprised you were advised to use an E111. The general opinion here seems to be that this is for emergency cover only when visiting (e.g. on holiday). Although many people seem to use them and get away with it, you do only get emergency cover - regular medication and the like isn't included.

Will (50)
Forum moderator

[Iceni]

Me confused again - do you mean Irish as in Republic or Irish as in 6 counties = UK I think (failed Geography so never sure which initails include NI).

John
http://www.iceni-it.co.uk

[Owen]

Hello Domi,

As you have read the stuff on the Frenchentree it may be an idea to obtain a copy of a guide on this subject through the same website. Your whole approach to this is flawed so not surprisingly confusion is setting in.

Just because a UK citizen in the same circumstances as you can obtain E106, you cannot automatically think that as a citizen of the Republic of Ireland you will have the same entitlement. That is like comparing apples with oranges. it is possible that you were given faulty information from the official but probably not. The actual reason why it was refused in your case possibly lies in the nature of Irish healthcare provision and how it is funded. My knowledge is limited on this but if Ireland still operates the Category 1 and Category 2 system then this may be the key. There are similarities with the Netherlands where citizens above a certain income take out private health insurance. So even after a lifetime of working there, on retirement and a move to France, E106 will be refused to those who have been privately insured.

Although the UK issues most of the E106s to those who are going to live, but not work, in another EU state it will also issue to those taking up certain employemts. In any case you have to deal with the world as it is and not how you wish it to be. It seems unlikley you are going to obtain E106 or any other E Form from the Irish authorities that will entitle you to reciproca healthcare arrangements; apart from the E111. It is probably worth obtaining one of these even if you have private insurance. E111 will cover you for emergency treatment if for some reason your private policy excluded treatment. It is worth obtaining E104 as this is a record of your contributions in the Republic. It will not be much use in affiliating to the French health system but it could help to obtain other benefits.

Your plan to pole up to the CPAM after 3 months in France may or may not be a good idea depending on your individual circumstances.

Regards

Peter Owen
pjowen@rivieramail.com