Giving blood (or rather, not)

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

Don't suppose many forum users qualify to give blood in France; I certainly don't.

"Le Ministre de l'Emploi et de la Solidarité a décidé d'exclure du don du sang les personnes ayant séjourné dans les Iles Britanniques pour une durée d'1 an et plus (nombre de séjours cumulés) entre 1980 et 1996. Un an dans les îles Britanniques pendant la période de 1980 à 1996 correspond à 20 jours par an chaque année pendant cette période.
Il s'agit d'une précaution maximale face à un risque théorique d'une transmission du nouveau variant de la maladie de Creutzfeldt Jacob par les produits sanguins. Aujourd'hui ce risque de transmission du nv-MCJ par le sang n'a pas été démontré."
 
  
From http://www.dondusang.net/le_saviez-vous.htm

[GRT17]

Pucette

The phrase " unclean, unclean!" comes to mind!

Gill

[Iceni]

Well I think that they are being sensible. The latest transmission of vCJD shows that blood does carry the 'infection'. When I started life as a lab technician a diagnosis of CJD caused all sorts of problems in labs as there was no real way of cleaning the instruments and other equipment used. Current sterlisiation of operating theatre tools does not work and for some operations all instruments have to be destroyed after one use - tonsilectomy being one common one. Much blood is added to 'pools' which are then used to make other products, so one infected donation could infect many people.

I personally had a transfusion at the height of the problems and although it was necessary know that it could be many years down the road, if ever, before I know I am safe. It was thought that only certain genetic types get vCJD but this now seems disproved. They are also getting older patients with vCJD, another break with the 'norm'. All this because they wanted to save money so heat treatment of animal protein material was changed (which I think if I remember correctly had to get gov. approval, which it did).

vCJD could still come back and cause a major problem as there seems to be a pool of infection in the general population. When the law banning the feeding of possibly infected foodstuff to UK animals came in, it was still legal to sell the foodstuff to other countries - which they did. In those days the content of animal feeds was not show in any way to the purchaser (so farmers for instance did not know what was in the feed at any point, just the protein content), this is how it got out into other EEC countries and beyond. BSE is probably a normal very rare mutation in cows (rather like scrapie in sheep), the UK managed to make it a deadly human problem and to this day farmers still do not know how they got blamed for something that they knew nothing about.

[zeb]

Rather embarrassingly found this out when I went to give blood a couple of years ago. At the time they couldn't give me any explanation so I assumed, as they asked if I had lived in the UK during the 80s, that it was because of HIV/AIDS.

Also had a little problem in hospital this summer when the infermiere was changing my dressing and some blood got spilt. She made a great fuss which seemed out of all proportion to the incident and I couldn't understand why. But the French woman in the neighbouring bed later told me that many French think all British people are carriers of CJD. All the nurses came into the ward swathed in latex after that

regards......helen

[Battypuss]

Sadly, as I was a blood donor (and don't to my knowledge carry any transmitable lurgy) in England, I can't do the same in France. Nor can my eldest daughter, which annoys the hell out of her. I haven't had recourse to blood transfusion in France, but truly wonder whether it's any safer to get my daughter's blood or a French persons? We have a rare blood group.

[CJJL<HR>Si jeunesse savait! Si vieillesse pouvait...]

I felt rather foolish when I dragged him indoors to the local foyer to give blood a few months ago. We were both turned down (ex-GB residents). I too, have a rare blood type (B-), and I was rather put out to be turned awsay like some unclean person!

A few weeks later, there was an small article in the Dépêche, about a French blood donor for 10 years, who had been diagnosed with vCJD...

Although I understand the reasons, I feel uncomfortable about the sweeping generalisation which tars every person having lived in GB.

[Gwenhwyfar]

Having had 8 blood transfusions since 1998 I wasn't eligible in the UK anyway Could part of the reason for the sweeping policy be that our medical records don't come with us, so for example if I didn't mention the blood transfusions I've had then they wouldn't know? Therefore administratively etc. it's easier to say all who have lived in GB?

[SaligoBay]

From the Associated Press a couple of months ago:

PARIS (AP) - A donor whose blood was used to transfuse 10 people and to manufacture medicines has been identified as France's eighth known victim of the human equivalent of mad cow disease, health officials announced Thursday.

Authorities are working to identify the 10 blood recipients. Once identified, their doctors will inform them they may have been exposed to the disease, said Jean-Francois Riffaud of France's national blood service.

Officials would not give the gender or other details about the person infected with variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, but said he or she is still alive.

The person, the eighth identified since 1996 to be suffering from CJD in France, "was a blood donor several times between 1993 and 2003," said a statement from France's Directorate General of Health.

The seven other people known to be infected with CJD did not give blood, the statement said.

Blood from the donor was also used in the manufacture of 88 batches of medicines, enough for several thousand people, officials said. Authorities identified 16 batches that remained in circulation and have recalled them. The rest were either used or were destroyed, officials said.

Health authorities stressed, however, that there is no proof that CJD can be transmitted through such blood products.

Isn't that last sentence interesting!   Diseased French donors can't pass it on, but diseased British donors can?   Hmmmmmm......... 

[Dick Smith]

As we discovered in the UK the phrase "there is no proof that" is not scientific, it is used by insurance companies and those fearful of future liability...

[Val_2]

All the students in my daughter's Lycée terminale were asked to attend a meeting by the Dracula service last year and then to donate blood. My girl insisted she wasn't allowed and they had absolutely no idea about brits who lived in the UK before 96 and now live here.Anyway she informed the Lycée of these facts and was excused.

[Mpprh]

Hi

I think this is over reaction following the shameless affair of not testing donors for HIV.

Peter

[Dick Smith]

I can't give blood in the UK any more, but when I did, about 2 years ago, the list of prohibitions was getting very long - including spending any time in Africa (AIDS) or getting blood transfusions in a wide variety of countries. I guess that the medical authorities are now accepting that vCJD/AIDS/Hepatitis is commonly spread through blood. Makes us all safer, but where will the blood come from in the future?

[Teamedup]

I had been under the impression that these restrictions that now occur were due to la vache folle rather than anything else......

[Dick Smith]

As you may note I said 'in the UK'. I haven't attempted to give blood in France because

a) it's not a thing you do much on holiday,

b) they wouldn't let me, and

c) it would now make me ill.

So I don't know. But it isn't vache folle (spongiform bovine encephalitis) they are afraid of, it's variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, the human form. I assume that French medical authorities are also wary of blood from donors who have been in AIDS hotspots, who have had a number of risky sexual partners etc.

[Iceni]

From what I gathered in the UK press, vCJD is transmissable - the prion is microscopic - actually I think it is too small or almost too small to see but I could be wrong.

I have also lived in Africa and came back just as the AIDs scare started.

I would rather not have any further transfusions from anyone anywhere but when you need one you need one. I only hope that manufactured blood actually becomes a reality, they have been trying for decades to make it.

[Dick Smith]

I think that is true about vCJD, and that is why whole blood is now a small part of what is taken. What some people now do is donate their own blood and take it with them in case they need it - though quite how that works I don't know.

[Mpprh]

Hi

my memory of the French blood doners v HIV scandal (it was in the mid 80's) goes like this :

No tests were being carried out

A suitable US invented test was available

French tests were delayed for 5 yrs whilst waiting for an enhanced French invented test

The French test did not arrive

Significant No's of haemophiliacs were infected

The majority of French doctors knew the situation and advised delaying none essential operations requiring transfusions

The sh1t hit the fan

The responsible politicians escaped blame and are still active today

Peter

[Teamedup]

French tests were delayed for 5 yrs whilst waiting for an enhanced French invented test

 

I remember it all too well. I should have perhaps had a transfusion in 1982 when my son was born and my gyn/ob decided that he wouldn't bother. Not that anyone really knew about the aids etc then. I have been thankful to that man ever since.

 And the above statement well, how often have I got to hear that I wonder, apparently if the french haven't thought it up they have to start again and do it themselves, even if they can't.

[Ron Avery]

To sum this up, does it mean that if you lived in the UK between 1980 and 1996, that you can never give blood in France?

Assuming that those wishing to give blood in France also gave in the UK, are you still refused even if you were a registered blood donor in the UK?

I know that new restrictions have been applied in the UK and you are now turned away if you have had a blood transfusion in the last year or so, but a blanket ban on all those from the UK does seem a bit sledge hammer and walnut particularly as a lot of blood donated is not pumped straight into people.

[Iceni]

'Slow virus' diseases such as vCJD and CJD can take decades to show any symptoms but stay infectious so I would think that a lifetime ban on all Brits giving blood is on the books.

Lets not forget the number of hemophiliacs who have died from AIDS in the UK, they not only got AIDS but loads of other infectious diseases as the UK bought so many products from the US where paid donors upped the risks, but they have also been warned that some of them are at risk from vCJD.

Those getting growth hormone have received infected tissue and some have contracted vCJD from this - young people being more likely to get the infection. It was not just France who let time go by and more people got infected with various killer diseases.

vCJD has also been transmitted in transplants, so being a donor could also be a problem

I am sitting here with a splint on my hand as I have a form of arthritis which came from a simple childhood virus (the fifth most common I understand) and known as 'slap face' disease and I am in a lot of permanent pain. The symptoms did not leave me after a year and my partner at the time got a rare eye virus - supposedly one of the most painful virus problems you can get. When John and I got together guess what he got... I assume I am still infectious as I still have the side effects and this was 20 years ago. It is not nice and when I explained what I had at a blood transfusion clinic I was told never to give blood. There are tests for this virus but they are not normally done and it took them for a month to find out what I had, they only bothered as I had recently come back from Africa and wanted to rule out HIV. It was something I got in the UK as I had young children. John once got laid low for three weeks from a virus 'injected' into him by a small black bug in Scotland.

Having a transfusion of any sort is a risk, as is a donation of organs, but the alternative is far worse for many so they take the risk.

[Teamedup]

As far as I know there are no exceptions to this rule in France at the moment.

[Dick Smith]

Di - would you mind PMing me some details of your virus which triggered arthritis - I am seeing a specialist in a week and I think mine stems from an infected leg injure a few years back.

On vCJD - we in the UK really don't know what the cost of the disease will be. People are dying and we don't know which part of the bell curve we are on because no-one knows the incubation period. I think the French are just playing it safe - especially after the AIDS scandal (similar occurred in the UK, but was spotted earlier, hence lots of HIV positive haemophiliacs.