Jump to content
Complete France Forum

What do they mean by 'income'?


thunderhorse

Recommended Posts

I know it's been done to death, but sometimes the answers aren't evident when so many questions are blurred by employment and pension considerations.

In France permanently. The E106's ran out Jan this year. No further extension. No problem.

We don't work, no pensions (yet), but live off the equity from the house sale in the UK (all savings in the UK). CPAM were talking about taking 8% of our income. I told the girl that our 'income' was simply pre-taxed savings in the UK, transferred out here as we need it, and that we didn't have an 'income' per se.

She then decided to tell me that all our savings are income, and they want 8%!

Our savings interest is under the earnings threshold (€7000?) And our French income tax bill is zero.

So what gives? Has the CPAM lassie got it wrong? Or do they want 8% of our savings interest which may fall above the threshold? Or something worse? [:(]

Cheers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 58
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

On your case, your income is the interest on your savings.

The girl at the health office should just take the appropriate figures from your French tax returns.

Don't forget that you will still have a liability to pay the 11% charge on your UK interest , however small it is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You must declare all of your interest on accounts whether they are here in France, the UK or Timbuktu (as Gay says) to the tax authorities here.  Interest is income.  It's subject to normal social charges and income tax and the CPAM will want their fair dues based on your revenue fiscal de reference on your tax summary that you get each year. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many thanks to all. That should sort it. I got my 'attestation' at the beginning of this month, based on all the returns made.

Clearly the girl was mistaken (English-speaking help line) in saying that all savings are income from which 8% will be taken, when she meant savings interest.

What a relief. She had been quite adamant. [:)]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've just noticed that you say your interest is just 7000€.  If this is your only income then you should be eligible to have free supplementary insurance cover through CPAM. Your girl there will probably have a choking fit when you ask about this, but it will save you having to pay for top-up insurance.

Have a look here for more information on this:

la-c.m.u.-complementaire/une-complementaire-sante-gratuite

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You should also qualify for free CMU as well:

Votre affiliation à la C.M.U. de base est :

  • gratuite si votre revenu fiscal de référence est inférieur à 7 083 euros, si vous êtes allocataire du Revenu minimum d'insertion (R.M.I.) ou, encore, si la C.M.U. complémentaire vous a déjà été accordée ;

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, if they ask and qualify for complementary (as I doubt if they are on RMI).  I find it very odd that there is no refernece to savings per se being taken into account, but there you go.

Hasn't that be debated before ?

Is the €7000 the total amount of interest or just the amount transferred.?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You should also qualify for free CMU as well:

Better get the application in quick, before the new law comes in that wil stop people moving to France to look for work qualifying for RMI, child benefits  or CMU. It was debated in January, I'm not sure when it comes into effect

Une troisième disposition opère la transposition en droit national de l'article 24 de la directive européenne relative aux droits des citoyens de l'Union européenne de circuler et de séjourner librement sur le territoire des États membres, qui autorise <les États d'accueil à ne pas accorder de droits à une prestation d'assistance sociale aux personnes entrées sur leur territoire> pour y chercher un emploi.

Le projet de loi applique cette mesure à trois types de prestations : le revenu minimum d'insertion, ou RMI, la couverture maladie universelle, ou CMU, et les prestations familiales. Il s'agit simplement d'éviter des mouvements de population liés à de seuls effets d'aubaine. Nos voisins ont d'ailleurs tous adopté des mesures similaires

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No need to say what I (and others ?) think of this bluddy huge loophole !!

Further to BJSLIV's post, there have been discussions by the Senate, looking in to, not just foreigners here but the French themslves, who sit on a nice nest egg from sales of their house(s). These people are able to get free health care and, in some cases, a free top up as well. All because the interest from their accounts, is low enough for free, or very cheap health care as well

The ongoing discussions are about bringing in to play,  the total gross lump sum, as well as the interest. This is seen as more inline with the original principle

CMU was, as many people are aware, brought in for people who had no healthcare and had slipped under the healthcare net. The lowness of the income to qualify for free healthcare, tells you in itself, why it was bought in, it was not for all the ex pats or French themselves who live off their lump sum from wherever gained but for those French or residents with little but a few euros to get by on and NO capital at all behind them.

With the French health system expected to be 70 billion euros in debt by 2020, you can be sure that all avenues will be scrutinised to claw back monies falling in to an ever growing black hole !!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before anybody jumps down Thunderhorse's throat, I didn't read anything in his post that suggested that he wanted to avoid his reasonable cotisations - simply a concern over the suggestion by somebody at CPAM that he should pay x% on his total UK capital, seemed adrift. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't jumping down anyones throat, well, except for the stupid government and them not looking to the future to see what could happen with the CMU.  I suppose to be fair, they never thought the poor would be selling houses just before being allowed health care with the CMU !!

And have no fear, there are many Brits already  here, or are coming over soon, that are fully aware that they can get free healthcare or at worst, extremely cheap health care, after their E106 runs out. French healthcare, in particular, the CMU, is well publicised in many publications now and of course, all over the net. I have had British people here recently, who tell me what they plan to do once their E106 runs out !

Perhaps it may well have been a misunderstanding that was heard?  I have heard some real miscomprehensions from people who have been to the Impôts or CPAM for example. On calling them, it was the opposite that had been said. If one relies on them to speak English, if ones French is not up to it, who can blame the person at CPAM, if they, believing they speak good English, make errors in translation ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interestingly, there was yet another another piece in the English speaking section of Sud Ouest last time round saying that the authorities had arrested and charged another 40 plus Brits, plus other nationalities, who are obtaining CMU/RMI when they have property abroad or savings on which they derive an income.

My view of RMI is that it's the same as what used to be called social security payments in the UK.  If a French person's taxable income was under the limit, then you got and still get support from the government.  In the UK, if your income is above a certain limit, if you have more than X amount in the bank (investments) then you don't get help.  Surely, if people decide to come to live in France they should be using their interest plus liquidating their investments to pay for healthcare or whatever else they need to live.  If their income is E7000, even without a mortgage, they could easily research what the French legal minimum wage or the average national was is (both have been quoted on here often enough) and work out from those figures that E7000 is probably not enough to live on.

Sorry to appear so hard nosed about things but as Miki has said above, if people are actually manipulating the system by expecting to get free healthcare when their E106 runs out and they factor that into their calculations when they should know in advance that they don't really have enough annual income, I'm not surprised that the Brits get caught up by the authorities. 

I know a Brit guy locally who has been telling people that his income last year was so low that he gets RMI/CMU - but of course he didn't bother to declare his cash in hand work that he did for people, working full time throughout the year on the black and who persistantly rings round people that he knows asking if they have any work.

I pay taxes in the UK and in France and still have to pay NI contributions for the work that I do in England.  I do get some free healthcare here because of my leukaemia and what goes with it but I wouldn't have dreamed of coming over here without enough money to live on on a daily basis, including my healthcare that I do have to pay for - come to France and get social security benfits when you own your home outright and have investments in the UK?  Don't think so and increasingly, nor do the French authorities. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While there are valid points in this thread, can we just remember that the original poster did not mention claiming anything - this 'facility' was highlighted by other forum members. In fact reading the original post it looks to me as if they may well draw down from their savings as required and even if they do not, they haven't mentioned claiming anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony, I would if I could, but reading the instructions, I'm not sure I can. I think its too far down the thread. I'm going to leave a message in the mod section and see if one of the more technical mods can do it. Alternatively you could copy & paste and repost in Goodbye RMI and delete this ?

Apologies [:(]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...