Cost of subscribing to French Healthcare system?

[Lesley Olver]

Despite trawling the internet and scouring magazines, I can't find the answer to this question. Can anyone give us an idea? We hope to move to France in a couple of years time, and to supplement my husband's police pension with some sort of holiday business. I understand that we will subscribe to the French Health system when the E106 expires, but have no idea what sort of cost to expect, although we understand it is high. Will it be calculated as a percentage of our earnings (including the pension) or is there a set charge? Are there any police retirees out there who can help us shed light on the situation? Any information gratefully received!

Lesley

[Will]

If you work, or run a business, you do not have the option of just subscribing to the health system. You have to pay a whole set of cotisations, (contributions) covering retirement funds, family allowance, unemployment benefit etc as well as health. These are compulsory, whether or not you are able to benefit from them. The exact percentage varies according to what you do and how much you earn. Our accountant reckon on allowing 46% of your taxable income for cotisations.

[Lesley Olver]

Thankyou for your reply Will. However, would my husband's pension be included in the 'taxable income' or would our 'cotisation' payments just be calculated from our earnings (providing we get some!) in France?

Lesley

[Will]

I think the pension should be regarded separately, as far as cotisations are concerned, but I may be wrong. A tax official might not do this automatically because it is a rather unusual situation for French people. You would need to ask an accountant about the best way of treating your two income streams.

[Roz]

Hi there! We've lived here for almost two years now.  My husband's E106 expired last month. We were sent yet more forms to fill in, including a booklet to be assessed for payment to the health system. Based on our only income - my husband's small private pension and the interest on our savings - our contribution was levied at 350.00 euros a year. We pay 120 euros a month for supplementary health insurance. Once you are in the system and have completed all the necessary paperwork - and there's a fair bit - and you've got your Carte Vitales, the system does seem to work well. Good Luck!

[Will]

Yes, that's how it works for those with pension and savings. Income from employment or a business is treated entirely differently in France and this can come as a bit of a shock for those who think they just have to pay 8% to the health service. The original poster wanted to run a holiday business to supplement the pension.

[Claire]

We live on my husband's UK Fire Service Pension and have no other income in France. This is taxed in the UK but declared on the French Tax forms.  We pay 247 Euros per quater and we can only assume the pension is taken into account.   The amount was reduced this year for some reason.  Last year we were paying 350 Euros per quater.

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="Lesley Olver"]

.... I understand that we will subscribe to the French Health system when the E106 expires, but have no idea what sort of cost to expect, although we understand it is high. Are there any police retirees out there who can help us shed light on the situation? Any information gratefully received!

Lesley

[/quote]

Lesley a word of caution, there have been retired police officers retiring here who have retired and then after a two or three years inactivity decided to move to France,  They have then found that they are not entitled to an E 106 or only get a year of one as it is issued on the basis of NI paid in the previous three years and takes no account of he fact that you may have paid NI for 30 years previously.  Worth looking into if it these circumstance apply to you.

[Tresco]

[quote user="Ron Avery"] They have then found that they are not entitled to an E 106 or only get a year of one as it is issued on the basis of NI paid in the previous three years and takes no account of he fact that you may have paid NI for 30 years previously. [/quote]

Do you mean the last three working years Ron?. That's what I understand.

(Sorry if it's obvious)

[Ron Avery]

No Mrs T as I understand it, its the last three years.  Do you remember that there was an ex coppper on here some time back now who had his E 106 refused because he had not worked in the previous three years after retiring and then he decided to move to France?

[Tresco]

Sorry Ron, I phrased it in a very bad way. I nearly came back and edited again, but I knew you would come to the rescue[:D][:$]

I don't remember the individual case you mention, but what you have said is exactly what I understand the position to be.

 

 

 

[Lesley Olver]

Thankyou for the advice Ron. However we are counting down the days to when we will be able to move to France and will be off like a shot as soon as possible. Hence to need to find out as much as possible well in advance! Any advice or information is so very welcome - and this forum is brilliant. Grateful thanks for those of you who have taken the time to reply

Lesley

 

[Jo]

Ron, you are quite right, my husband retired 18 months ago and we intend to move to France next year, after making enquiries we were told that we could only claim the two years with the E106, if he had worked for the 3 years before leaving the Uk. He now has taken another job until we leave to make sure we get the benefit! Poor sod!

[powerdesal]

Can I just chip in with my interpretation of whats been said, to check if I have understood it correctly ( I am sure Will will advise):-

If I (we) retire to take up permanent residence in France and our only source of income is unearned income, ie investment returns and interest. No employment income, no pension income. We would pay a percentage ( 8 % ?????) for social contributions on that total unearned income. Have I got it right ?

[Will]

Steve, there are others with better knowledge that me, but if your income etc is over a certain figure, currently I think around 8000€, you will pay 8% healthcare contribution, and probably income tax too. You will also, as it is not employment or pension income, be liable to CSG/CRDS/PS at 11% on the whole lot - this latter is dressed up as a 'social charge' but in effect is an extra tax to pay for the overspending of the health system.

It is well worth taking professional advice to ensure that your investments are arranged in the most tax-efficient way to suit your own situation.

[powerdesal]

Thanks Will, I will find an accountant when next in France.

ps What on earth are you doing on the forum at 0700 French time ??????

[Will]

One of those investment and taxation specialists who advertise in the Living France etc mags might be best if it's a sum big enough to live off the interest.

I'm not actually in France at the moment either Steve.

[Helen]

Hi

Does this situation also apply if the business is registered in England and has an English office and English staff? I am going around in circles trying to understand social security contributions and our liabilities.

My husband and I are directors of an English company but will be permanent residents in France from March this year.

We've been told by HRMC that we will not get any health cover from the UK as we will be in employment, so I assume we will need to immeadiately pay our fees to URSSAF but the great debate is how much!

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks

[Will]

You will most likely need to register a subsidiary of your business in France, though if you do not actually do any work for the business you may not need to do this. You need to talk to an accountant who understands French and English businesses because it is all too easy to get things wrong and end up paying more than you need. The French Chamber of Commerce in London would be a good starting point, they publish a useful book on the subject.

[Suninfrance]

What happens now.

My E106 ran out on 6th Jan.  I have a Carte Vitale though.  I have no income either from England or France and have another 15 years to go before I can draw both my private and state pension.  We are currently living off the proceeds of our house in England.  OH's income is his Incapacity Benefit.

1. As I have the Carte Vitale am I still covered although I am not yet paying into the French System?
2. Will I be covered by my husband's E106 which still has a year to go?
3. Because OH receives Incapacity Benefit, will his E106 continue as long as he receives IB?
4. Will the amount I have to pay to the French system be based on our savings in England?
5. If the answer to 1-3 above is NO - what do I do now?

Just can't get my head around it.

Jan

[Ron Avery]

Jan

Look here, this had been done to death recently

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/783746/ShowPost.aspx

In a nut shell your carte vitale is out of date,  as it is based on an out of date UK form.  AFAIK your O/H should not be on an E 106,  he should be on an E121 which you may be able to piggyback on.  Have good read of the thread above and do a search for other similar ones.

In any event, you need to get on to Newcastle ASAP as you will not get anything sorted with CPAM unless you get a letter telling them that either your E 106 has expired, or your O/H is entitled to an E 121.  You say you have no income but live off the proceeds of your UK house, is that capital transfers or interest received?  If it is interest o savings/capital invested, you will pay social charges on this as unearned income when you declare your income tax in May.  This is NOT the same as contributions to the CMU, these are income based. and you may not have to pay anything if your income is low,  however, if you don't declare much income you may well get a visit from CPAM officials to see how you manage to survive on thin air as has happened to some members on here.

[Suninfrance]

Hi Ron - thanks - I will read the contents of the link you sent.

We've already had hassle with the tax office because they couldn't find OH's tax form which he filled in AT THE HOTEL DES IMPOTS and they consequently "mislaid" it.  He made an appointment to fill out another one, but they refused to accept any form from us because we have no income from France.  OH was then taken "upstairs" and questioned about our Tax d'habitation and how we managed to live with no income in a one roomed ruin.  He explained the house had 4 rooms, toilet, electricity and fosse.  Taxman demanded to know why we hadn't made any applications for permission for the alterations and why we hadn't declared them.  OH then explained that when we brought the house, all these things were there.  He wasn't having it.  Gave us another form to fill out, followed by a visit from a representative who took all the measurements and told us that our tax would probably quadruple.  I don't have a problem with that.  I do have a problem in that we can't fill out a tax return in England because we are resident in France, and the French Taxman doesn't want one because we have no income in France and told us to do an English one.

We are in the process of trying to sort this out, but I think it's going to be a long haul.

Jan

 

[Richard]

Dear Roz

   I just noticed your e-mail on the France Magazine site and would like to ask you what you know about applying to enter the French Healthcare system for non-French EU citizens.

  Did you use any professional help in approaching the French authorities?  How are costs determined for non French citizens, etc.   I am currently under a private healthcare policy in France which is very expensive and would like to see if it's possible to enter the French system.  

I would like to hear from you.

Richard

[Sunday Driver]

If you have been permanently resident in France for more than three months, then it is mandatory to register for state healthcare. With some exceptions, private heathcare insurance is not allowed here.

You will find a full explanation of the French healthcare system, its operation, the registration requirements and the costs on the [url=http://www.ameli.fr/index.php]French Health Service[/url] website.

 

[steve tachauer]

My wife and I are both retired Police officers and are moving to Dept. 62 in 2 weeks. Having spoken to the DWP this morning I can tell you this much. I retired in 2001 and do not qualify for an E106. My wife retired in 2005 and has been working one hour per day as a school dinner lady. She does qualify and will get an E106 valid until the 5th of January 2008 and both I and our 6 year old son can 'piggy-back' her entitlement.