Jump to content
Complete France Forum

Changes to Health Care for 'Inactifs'


cossie

Recommended Posts

Our E 106 expires in Jan 2008.  Can any one confirm the 60 hours rule which qualifys entitlement to the French Health Care system. 

If I work 60 hours in November or December will this cover me for 12 months CMU or only until the end of this year.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="cooperlola"]It isn't an amount, but a length of time.  60 hours per month, if memory serves.  Or register a business, and pay full cotisations.[/quote]

That's an interesting thought! I wonder how the cost of paying full cotisations would compare with paying for private insurance for two people?

I had jokingly said to my O/H What about registering as a B&B but not exactly advertising our services? [Www]

We've received two letters, one telling us we cannot renew with CMU but that we can remain with CMU until Mar 31st 2008 but to get ourselves along to our CPAM office toute de suite... also included in the same envelope was a letter saying our renewal aplication had been accepted and is valid until Mar 31st 2008, and also stating how much our new (higher) contributions will be.

Does the inclusion of the second letter mean we don't have to make the 50-mile round trip, or should we go anyway?

Also, does anyone know whether, after Mar 31st, the "inactif" female spouse (under 60) of a retiree (over 65) will still be included as a beneficiary and be entitled to the same healthcare under his CMU application?


 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm no expert but,

My understanding of the 60 hour rule is,

If you work for an employer for at least 60 hours in a calender month, its classed as part time working.

So its not challenged I would imagine the hours would have to spread across the month. ( That's only my opinion )

Your Employer will obtain a Social Security Number for you and this is passed to the CPAM to change your status from inactive

What I can't find out is if you stop working later on does your status revert to inactive. Do you sign on, as unemployed

My understanding of "Inactive" is not working and not "actively" looking for work

Working seems the route we'll be taking. My insurance premium came back ( including pre-existing illnesses) at 9800 euro's per annum

Best of luck, please let me know how you get on, by email.

Joshua[:)]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reading up various discussion boards on the matter of the health care changes, I have come across a post that advocates that...

[quote]you can set up a UK limited company for less than £100 and write a

contract between yourself and that company making you self-employed in

France. The advantages of this are that businesses are better treated

in the UK and your ability to write your own terms means you to earn as

much or as little as you like in France for social, medical and other

charges. This isn't a con or a fiddle, it's a loophole and one that

many French and German resident businesses pass through every day of

the year; my French accountant is a UK registered business even though

she's never been to Blighty in her life!

Of course if there's nothing you can do, build or sell (for reasons of

certification, health, or otherwise) then this is of little value but

if you want a fast-track to market with limited liability and

short-term exposure to France's very long-term social regime it's

definitely the way to go.

And I speak from personal experience when I say that.[/quote]

Can anyone comment on this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Roz"]

 

Also, does anyone know whether, after Mar 31st, the "inactif" female spouse (under 60) of a retiree (over 65) will still be included as a beneficiary and be entitled to the same healthcare under his CMU application? 

[/quote]You need to have a look at the E121 of the pensionable person.  If the box which says something like "includes those people living with and dependent upon them," is ticked, then the o/h can piggy-back on to it.  If it isn't ticked, then talk to the DWP - centre for non-residents - and find out if this can be corrected.  Basically, it's intially up to the UK authorities as to whether a spouse can be covered on their o/h's E121, although in theory the local CPAM has the final say.  But I've yet to hear of one person who has been refused at the French end  if the UK agrees to pick up the cost.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Cooperlola, but there's no E121 involved. The husband is over 65; they've lived here four years.  Presumeably, he can continue with CMU, as he's reached the legal UK retirement age, but does that automatically mean that his wife,who is under 60, will still be able to receive health-related refunds as his dependent?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Slightly puzzled

If husband is over 65 he presumably has a UK old age pension,if so he is entitled to an E121 which then means he is entitled to register with CPAM for health care

If he is not in receipt of a uk old age pension then he is not entitled to an E121 therefore not entitled at the moment the way the rules stand to health care via CMU

If entitled to an E121 then wife is covered

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been following the CMU issue for several months.  We recently received a letter that says that we are covered by CMU for the base as a result of being resident.  I was not sure that we would continue to be covered based on the various postings of others.  I am not gloating and feel very bad for all of those who have been denied coverage.  I am just confused as to why we are being covered and others are not.  Can anyone explain or shed light on why we are covered.  Here is our situation. We live in 41.  We are Americans living in France since 2002.  I am 63 and my wife is 62.  We have a modest income from work I do in the USA each year.  We have filed French taxes for the last four years (although we do not pay French income taxes due to the tax treaty with the USA.). Until this year we had to apply each year for a temporary visitor visa. This year we applied, and were granted, residence visas (all professions).

Again, can anyone who understands all of this coming and going explain why we are being covered and what, if anything, we need to do to continue to receive coverage?  Thanks.

James

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]

Slightly puzzled

If husband is over 65 he presumably has a UK old age pension,if so he is entitled to an E121 which then means he is entitled to register with CPAM for health care

If he is not in receipt of a uk old age pension then he is not entitled to an E121 therefore not entitled at the moment the way the rules stand to health care via CMU

If entitled to an E121 then wife is covered

[/quote]

Sorry, there was a misunderstanding; my friend does indeed have an E121 (phew!) [8-)]

Another interesting scenario: friends of ours (inactifs, less than five years residency) are in the health system, having healthcare costs refunded by CPAM, and top-up insurance, yet have never been invited to join the CMU and have never been asked for any social contributions. They'd never heard of CMU or URSSAF until all this blew up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Joerger École"]

I have been following the CMU issue for several months.  We recently received a letter that says that we are covered by CMU for the base as a result of being resident.  I was not sure that we would continue to be covered based on the various postings of others.  I am not gloating and feel very bad for all of those who have been denied coverage.  I am just confused as to why we are being covered and others are not.  Can anyone explain or shed light on why we are covered.  Here is our situation. We live in 41.  We are Americans living in France since 2002.  I am 63 and my wife is 62.  We have a modest income from work I do in the USA each year.  We have filed French taxes for the last four years (although we do not pay French income taxes due to the tax treaty with the USA.). Until this year we had to apply each year for a temporary visitor visa. This year we applied, and were granted, residence visas (all professions).

Again, can anyone who understands all of this coming and going explain why we are being covered and what, if anything, we need to do to continue to receive coverage?  Thanks.

James

[/quote]

The rule changes only apply to EU citizens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Glyn"]

So are they now saying that EU 'inactifs' cannot access the CMU whislt non EU 'inactifs' can?

If so, does anyone have access to the official documents that state this is the case?

[/quote]

It is not only US people who can carry on as before but quite a lot of other nationalities (non-EU countries).  These changes seem to be only applied to EU countries.

Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Roz"][quote user="Boiling a frog"]

Another interesting scenario: friends of ours (inactifs, less than five years residency) are in the health system, having healthcare costs refunded by CPAM, and top-up insurance, yet have never been invited to join the CMU and have never been asked for any social contributions. They'd never heard of CMU or URSSAF until all this blew up. [/quote]

[/quote]Are you saying they don't contribute anything?  Maybe they are still on an E106 (if they've been here for less than 2.5 years.)  If they are and it's about to expire, then they may be in for a shock very soon - it would also explain why they're not paying social charges (although that is due on all "unearned" income - it may just be that they don't do a tax return?)  Without knowing all the details, it's tough to tell.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The dreaded letter from the CPAM  du Lot arrived in the post this morning, stating that as from the 31st March 2008 we will no longer be affuliated to the CMU. Having read all the previous threads on everything concerning this topic, now that's it's actually happened, I'm not sure what to do next? As previously stated, I'm from Jersey, a non-EU island, tho' my o/h is from the UK, but lived in Jersey for approx. 19 years, so he's not entitled to anything from the UK. We have my Police pension from Jersey, and live on that, with my o/h and son being  'dependants'. If the new rules apply only to persons from EU countries, [the letter states 'tout ressortissant de l'Union Europeenne, de l'Espace Economique Europeen ou de la Confederation suisse], and in the absence of any movement on the 5 year rule [for which we have applied for our Titre de Sejour], perhaps we ought to pay the office a visit and find out what our position is. Or do we just sit tight and wait for further clarification? Any thoughts please?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would definately start with a visit to the CPAM and inform them quite firmly that Jersey isn't in the EU so you, at the very least - and I reckon your family too - just aren't affected.  I suspect the average CPAM person has no idea that it isn't part of the union.  Good place to start. 

Don't do nothing though!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Coop! I've just telephoned the Social security offices in Jersey who confirm that the island is neither EU nor in the European Economic area [the Espace Economique Europeen] referred to in the letter. If I write to them, asking for a written reply clarifying this, they will do so, which'll be further ammo. to take to the CPAM office in Cahors. Seems they [the CPAM] don't know the Channel Isles aren't EU, but there again, not a lot of people know that!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Joerger École"]

I have been following the CMU issue for several months.  We recently received a letter that says that we are covered by CMU for the base as a result of being resident.  I was not sure that we would continue to be covered based on the various postings of others.  I am not gloating and feel very bad for all of those who have been denied coverage.  I am just confused as to why we are being covered and others are not.  Can anyone explain or shed light on why we are covered.  Here is our situation. We live in 41.  We are Americans living in France since 2002.  I am 63 and my wife is 62.  We have a modest income from work I do in the USA each year.  We have filed French taxes for the last four years (although we do not pay French income taxes due to the tax treaty with the USA.). Until this year we had to apply each year for a temporary visitor visa. This year we applied, and were granted, residence visas (all professions).

Again, can anyone who understands all of this coming and going explain why we are being covered and what, if anything, we need to do to continue to receive coverage?  Thanks.

James

[/quote]

 

As far as I can see the reason you are covered by the CMU is simply that you are a permanent resident with the "CE - séjour permanent - toutes activités professionnelles".  You must, therefore, be treated the same as a French national resident in France.

The same should apply to EU Citizens once they qualify for permanent status.  Qualification for permanent status for 'inactifs' is here and for 'actif' here

I would also draw the attention of people in employment or considering employment to Article 17 of EU Directive 2004/38EC (I have marked some bits in red)

Article 17

Exemptions for persons no longer working in the host Member State and their family members

1. By way of derogation from Article 16, the right of permanent residence in the host Member State shall be enjoyed before completion of a continuous period of five years of residence

by:

(a) workers or self-employed persons who, at the time they stop working, have reached the age laid down by the law of that Member State for entitlement to an old age pension or workers who cease paid employment to take early retirement, provided that they have been working in that Member State for at least the preceding twelve months and have resided there continuously for more than three years.

If the law of the host Member State does not grant the right to an old age pension to certain categories of selfemployed persons, the age condition shall be deemed to have been met once the person concerned has reached the age of 60;

(b) workers or self-employed persons who have resided continuously in the host Member State for more than two years and stop working there as a result of permanent incapacity to work.

So, if you comply with Article 17 (1) (a) you could become permanently resident in just over three years

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mrs P

We're in a similar situation, being from the Isle of Man, we've never had any 'E' forms.

We'll be interested to find out how you get on. 

We've got one person telling us that we aren't affected and another saying we will be.  We're still awaiting clarification.

We' had our dreaded letter a couple of weeks ago.

Good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Manxie. I've just drafted a letter to our SS in Jersey asking for a written reply re. the Channel Isles' non-EU status. I'll go off this afternoon.  As soon as I get it, we'll be off to our CPAM offices with the argument. Yes, I will post with the result of that meeting, but it's likely to be in a couple of weeks. Keeping fingers crossed!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...