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E121/E106, Maybe A Strange Question


Grecian

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Humphff.  [:(]

On page four I saw a chance to finally contribute something to this forum.  I thought this is my chance, I know the answer and nobody has beaten me to it for once.[:D]

So I posted, and was very proud of myself.  [B] [Www]

Had visions of following in the footsteps of SD. [8-|]

And what happens - Nobody even notices.  [:(] [:P] [8-)]

Everybody too busy being upset with each other and arguing.  Humphff. [+o(]

So will lick my wounds and retire to my corner to await another chance in a few years. [B] [B]

[I] In the meantime I will lighten up and see if Bugbear has posted any more funnies. [:D]

Kind regards to all those who have helped me in the past. [kiss]

David

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OK 4 teachers then, 3 of them on IB can very well work and do having no trouble doing computer work, gardening, building work, cooking for large parties and lots of other tasks that suggest that they are very well able to work, so that is 75% fraud rate[:P] 

SD If you want to believe the fraud rate is small amongst 2 million claimants that is up to you, my experiences from a large number of people over a few years now at French classes says the opposite in France.  Is Cameron also wrong in his estimate that 200,000 (mainly young people I understand,) on IB could work tomorrow?

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[quote user="David"]

On page four I saw a chance to finally contribute something to this forum.  I thought this is my chance, I know the answer and nobody has beaten me to it for once.[:D]

So I posted, and was very proud of myself.  [B] [Www]

Had visions of following in the footsteps of SD. [8-|]

And what happens - Nobody even notices.  [:(] [:P] [8-)]

Everybody too busy being upset with each other and arguing.  Humphff. [+o(]

So will lick my wounds and retire to my corner to await another chance in a few years. [B] [B]

[/quote]

Don't worry too much David, although it doesn't affect me personally I understood exactly what you said. I think it's a combination of the time of year, and the determination of those who seem intent on argueing for arguments sake.

It's not coming up to a full moon by any chance [:D][:D]

Gary.

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It happens to us all, David, Sunday Driver no less than others, as I'm sure he'd tell you. Welcome to the club, you keep on posting useful stuff and b*gg*r all the b*thcing that goes on in betweenl  I think Gary's right.  The weather is c**p and some are getting bored, or are just naturally argumentative.  Everybody likes a good scrap, the problem is that the poor o/p has to sift through all this to get an answer to his (perfectly innocent, I am sure) question.  Now he knows just to look at posts from S/D, David et al and ignore the others.[:D]
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Well, I would like to thank everybody at the start of this thread who tried to convey sensible answers, to my original question, as I stated in the title maybe a strange one. But it now seems to have degenerated into who is, and who is not a IB scrounger, very sad I must say.

I would also like to echo ebaynut's sentiments, that most people who post on this forum to be very sensible and helpful, please keep up the good work.

Whilst not being in such a bad position as the people who's 106s have just run out, and find themselves now stranded in France, without any healthcare cover from their new adopted country. We sold our house in the UK just as Sarko dropped his bombshell. We are obviously better off than the people already in France, knowing what to expect regarding healthcare, if we still decide to make the move. So trying to ascertain everything we can regading E121s, if we decide to take the plunge, is paramount in our future planning, thus that is why I asked the original question.

Not wishing to be drawn into the now degenerated thread, I would just like to say it is nice to know that 'call me Dave' has discovered a new skill to add to his CV, that being a fully qualified doctor, who is capable of diagnosing 200,000 people without an examination!

 

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Grecian, returning to your orginal question (when was that?):

I would be inclined, in your position, to get an E106 on your own behalf, even though your wife may have an E121.  That way, if for any reason it were withdrawn, she can at least "piggy back" on to you for as long as it lasts.

Better still, investigate the possibility of setting up some kind of business, however small, and pay into the Regime Generale, via cotis.

I have been dealing with, over the past few months, so many people in truly horrifying situations whose personal histories and circumstances are too distressing, in some cases, to even contemplate.  If you have the least doubt about your future healthcare in France, then my advice - in the short term at least - is to stay put in the UK, warts or not, should you be able to still. Believe me, anybody who is long-term sick does not need the kind of stress that the current situation is carrying with it.  As you say, at least you are yet to burn all your bridges, unlike some who now find themselves with no access to healthcare unless they sell up to pay for it or return to a country which is no longer their home.

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Thanks Bugbear and Coops,

I much appreciated your replies to my genuine post.

I was trying to lighten up the thread as I thought there was a lot of useful info available if the backbiting stopped.

I have also noticed that in past threads there seems to be some confusion as to what benefits an E121 actually confers, without defining the basis of the E121.

Edited

David

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My, my,  a lot of holier than thou attitudes around this morning.  The original question was:

Does anybody know, if we move to France and obtain healthcare cover via my wife's E121, obtained due to her being in receipt of long-term incapacity benefit, and for any reason in the future the benefit is stopped, would she/we then from the moment the E121 ceased, be entitled to obtain an E106 for up to 2 years further cover?

The postings on this thread covered the issue and then migrated from that to other related points of interest, I don't see anything different about this thread than many others in the information topics, the only arguements as far as I can see were about the level of fraudulent IB being claimed in the UK or France (mea culpa[:$],  and whether you get 100% payments for certain aliments and illnesses  by which new information was forthcoming. Points made in hundreds of threads migrate into other points, some of interest to the OP some not, luck of the draw really, but that is how this Forum works and should continue to work, its a bit rich for people to make comments about Forum conduct, bad weather etc and boredom when,  compared to many threads infested by the one line kings and queens, this one has at least kept to the subject matter.

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[quote user="Ron Avery"]My, my,  a lot of holier than thou attitudes around this morning.  The original question was:

Does anybody know, if we move to France and obtain healthcare cover via my wife's E121, obtained due to her being in receipt of long-term incapacity benefit, and for any reason in the future the benefit is stopped, would she/we then from the moment the E121 ceased, be entitled to obtain an E106 for up to 2 years further cover?

.............................................. its a bit rich for people to make comments about Forum conduct, bad weather etc and boredom when,  compared to many threads infested by the one line kings and queens, this one has at least kept to the subject matter.

[/quote]

I'm not sure how the huge number of teachers falsely claiming IB (in your opinion) bears any reference to the OP. Perhaps you should read your own posts before making such critisism of others.

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To be honest, Ron, I guess I'm just feeling very jaded at the moment, and the horror stories I'm getting involved with at the moment are extremely depressing.

The o/p asked a question which - to my mind at any rate - seemed pretty sensible and deserved a sensible answer.  In the past anybody on long term incapacity benefit could pretty much rely on this lasting and with it, their resulting E121.  This may have given rise to a lot of cheating, I do not know, I really am not in a position to say. I know of only two people on it and both are, to my certain knowlege - genuinely ill.  They may appear OK for a day or two but this does not last and on many days they are capable of little more than eating and sleeping, and sometimes just the latter.

All the talk of "cheats" and re-assessments - not on here but from those who have power over these people's futures - is bound to make anybody think again, especially as they are not being told what being 'capable of working' means.  If you live here and are subject to re-examination by French medics, who is to know what will happen, or what the results will be?  And if they have sold up on the basis of believing (possibly on the advice of the medical practitioners who know them well, in Britain) that they would not ever lose their benefits,and came here then lost them for some reason, they cannot now join the French stystem until they reach state pensionable age or have been here five years.  And if the illnesses flare up again, then they cannot re-apply.  You don't have to be a potential cheat to want to know what's going to happen to you should you lose incapcity benefit at a future time - it just seems pragmatic to me.

As I say, if anybody knows of somebody who is genuinely cheating the system, then I suggest they report them to the authorities if it gets up their noses so much!

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I think we would all appreciate it if you two had your differences away from the forum.

It is very unfair on other forum members and on the mods who are, as you both know, volunteers. Why should we have to spend our time pruning threads because you two cannot be civil?

If you disagree, fine - attack the argument - not the person.

 

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I am sorry R/H, I was unaware that I was being uncivilised, and my comments were not aimed at one person - with whom I have no problems, on or off the forum - (just occasional differences of opinion), just at the concept.

Whilst I agree in some ways, the difference is now that anybody coming off an E121 because they have recovered (and I expect that's what they would prefer to happen) cannot now join CMU unless they have been here five years.  This, I imagined, was the reason for Grecian's question.  Therefore they must consider what would happen in that case, and make plans, because with any medical history of this sort, they certainly will not get private health cover for anything which had previously been designated as a long-term disability.

 

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cooperlola, many thanks for all your sensible comments you have put forward on this thread, regarding people maybe losing their E121, due to a change in the system, and thus finding themselves stranded in France without any healthcare cover until retirement age, or 5 years residency.

Having not looked at this thread until this evening, there seems to have been some 'fireworks' flying, with all the edits within the thread, hope I haven't caused too much aggro.

We are coming over to France again early April to make a final decision if France is the place for us, purely on a lifestyle basis, then we will have to take into consideration the healthcare situation. When we first considered the move, we factored in losing DLA, but keeping IB, thus healthcare cover for 70%, plus the top-up cost. Ironically it seems that part of DLA maybe exportable, making that side of things better. We were basing our decision on, if IB were to be stopped, then we could enter CMU via the 8% contribution, now as we know that will not be possible for 5 years. So some very tough decisions to be made. As my wife lives in constant pain, and pops painkillers daily like smarties, there really shouldn't be any problem in her continuing to receive her IB, but as you stated this could be at the whim of whatever doctor examines her on the day, in the future. All very unsettling.

 

 

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Whilst I can see there must be concern at the possibility that withdrawl of an E121 might risk the loss of health cover in France, the new law makes provision for those who cannot get private health cover to affiliate to the CMU.

Accordingly, if you lose entitlement to an E121 because you no longer qualify on medical grounds, you should (theoretically) be able to obtain private health insurance. If your application for private insurance is refused (or you find it impossible to pay the premium demanded), then you can make application to join the CMU.

These health changes are not good news for expats, but let us keep them in proportion, and not try and invent problems or exaggerate those that exist. 

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You are correct of course, Rob.  However, it is still open to interpretation.  The "accident of life" provisions in the new rules say that you can apply to join the CMU if you cannot get insurance but - and here is the biggie - only if said "accident" was unforseen on arrival.  Hence, it is up to your local bureacrats to decide what this means - does it mean you didn't know your E121 might be taken away, or that you were not ill when you arrived?  Because if the latter, then you certainly might have a problem.  Hopefully, the new instructions to CPAMs (whose publications is causing all the delays) will clarify this point. 

But for anybody planning a move - as Grecian is - I still say, be careful, and make sure you know how you're going to get medical cover, before you sink everything you have into France.  I'm not saying,  let it stop you, simply that a little caution is necessary, especially at the moment, and certainly for new arrivals - for whom I cannot foresee any change in the current regulations.

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