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Artois

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[quote user="Keni "]

Cooperlola

thank you for that - but do you know what epilepsy is classified as in France? For example I would think that no-one would offer our daughter medical insurance as she will most probably always have epilepsy. Here in the Uk I am her carer, for want of a better word, although she is over 19, she will always need someone around her. If she were to move to France with us, I cannot find out yet if I can claim her meds for her or if they are chargeable. Can my husband and I get an E121 for looking after her? As yet no-one can offer me that information. Is she classified as disabled in France? She did not ask to have epilepsy, but it does not stop her wanting to have a normal life.

 

[/quote]That is such a tough one.  Although, assuming she wants to work or study, she should qualify in her own right for healthcare - and imo, this is her best plan.  What I do not know is whether her epilepsy then would qualify for 100% re-imbursement - I can't find it on the ALD list - but I feel it must be there and that I have missed it (Nikel, where are you?)  But of course, any mutuel cannot deny her cover, if top-up is all she needs. If inactive, then she faces the same problems as you, imo, but I will look into it.
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Thank you Cooperlola.

Here in the Uk she has been finding work hard to find on the excuse of 'she might injure herself/customers/etc. She is just completing two years Motor Vehicle Engineering at college, from sixth form. She has a brain, but mention the word epilepsy and everyone gets scared.

We would love to be in France, but until she is settled one way or another, we have to stick it out. She has a lower/Med. Disability award and is registered disabled. Apart from that we cannot find out what we should do. She has Severe Partial Complex Epilepsy?, and that might help as we at least have a name to the type.

Thanks for your help.

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If she gets incapacity benefit from the UK, that would give her an E121.  Then she'd be fine, but of course, only so long as it lasted - if the benefit were to be withdrawn before she'd lived here 5 years then it would be back to square one again.  Whether that would then help you two out as her carers, I do not know, but the DWP would.
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Hello Coops

ALD 9 Forme grave d'une affection neuromusculaire

It does specify "severe" epilepsy - as far as I can gather they (HAS) are in the process ( may have completed) of issuing guidlines to doctors

I'll try and find out more.

Could you add it to the ALD list on your Health Issue site?just as another heading under ALD 9- I am sure more will be added over time.

 

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Thank you Cooperlola and Nickel

I am not sure about the 'grave' epilepsy - to us you have it or not. It is meant to be controlled by meds, but we have a monthly series of episodes, and each time we visit the hospital they seem to up the meds. I do not know about the incapacity benefit thing, as we try to just get by without hassling anybody. We registered with the DSS for herself, purely because we knew when she left school, the meds might cost a fortune. She is on a Disability Living Allowance and she has the middle rate care component and lower rate mobility component. Does this make sense to anybody?

Thank you again

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This is where we need Tony F and co!  He is well up to speed with the new regulations on the transfer-ability of DLA and its implications vis a vis cover here which is the subject of some complicated high-level discussions and legal issues.  Once again, all this info' helps and I'm sure it strengthens your case.  I will continue to dig..

IMO, we all pay our taxes and social security etc to help those in need, because one day, it might be us - and it's just good luck if it never is.  Never be afraid to seek the state help which is due to you and your family. This is what I hope I am paying for!

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Severe partial complex seizures - Crises partielles complexes.

The "severity" for ALD exemption is ascertained by        

the number/:frequency/ severity of the seizures

medical treatment required to "control" the seizures (mono or poly therapy)

social consequences  - ability for working/driving/sports etc 

"grave" just translates as "severity" as you know some forms of epilepsy are more severe than others.

Exemption is gained for "epilepsie grave" under ALD 9. It seems likely that  your daughter would be in this category

I hope that is of some help.

 

 

 

 

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Thank you Nickel

She is on the two meds mentioned earlier, the Keppra was increased at the beginning of February to try and control said fits.

I will contact DSS tomorrow to find out more about what is classified as severe etc overhere.

Thank you

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Keni,

As I understand it, if either you or your partner are carers, you ought to elligible for 'Carers Allowance', (I think the criteria is equal to 35 hours per week - but don't quote me on that), which is one of the conditions curently under review for exportation throught the ECJ decision, which 'should' also lead to qualification for an E121.

The DWP site statement says:

European Court of Justice ruling

On 18 October the European Court of Justice gave a judgment which deals with whether Disability Living Allowance (care component only), Attendance Allowance, and Carer’s Allowance should be paid to people who move from within the UK to live in another country within the European Economic Area.

It is not yet clear what this will mean for recipients of the affected benefits. We expect to provide full details on eligibility criteria by 5 April 2008. First payments could be made to eligible customers shortly afterwards.

 

You can find out more about Carers Allowance 'here'

And 'this' gives more info for Disability Living Allowance.

I don't think your daughter will qualify for Incapacity Benefit I'm afraid, unless she has paid NI contributions for the last two years. Check with DWP about this. [:(]

Hope this helps. [:)]

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Thank you ebaynut, I have looked up the information and will proceed further.

Part of the problem I perceive in this country, as with most allowances, be they medical or for the elderly is the on-going proof business. i can well understand the requirements, but it does wear you down and i can see why many of our elderly do not claim what they are entitled to simply because it is the same thing again and again. Mind you, that should be a good proving ground for moving to France I feel.

They DSS can see from our daughter's records she has epilepsy and I often feel they require her to have a fit in front of them to prove she is epileptic, if you know what I mean. Still, I'm a dab hand at filling in forms for her these days.

 

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Keni,

I believe they will contact your daughter's doctor with a form for him to fill in, and probably any hospital specialists who are treating her. But, I believe that epilepsy is a condition which is considered lifelong, although manageble with medication. (Much the same as diabetes or high blood pressure for instance). This would therefore continue to be accepted even with periodical re-assessment, and should in theory 'almost' guarantee continued qualification.

Her qualification regarding DLA rests with whether the middle rate will be sufficient for exportation, and therefore an E121, but I believe that so long as it includes the 'care element' it should suffice.

We are all waiting on what their decision will mean in terms of whether it will achieve an E121, but having spoken with someone at DWP it was their own interpretation that it would have to be treated just the same as Incapacity Benefit, which does qualify for exportation and an E121.

(They also suggested that it could also include the mobility element at some future stage).

I would advise that if you are not already claiming Carers Allowance, you should do so immediately. There are thousands and thousands of people who care for people in the UK who do not even realise that they could be eligible for this benefit, and subsequently do not claim. 

I am sending you a pm.

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  • 3 weeks later...
My friends have been here for 3 1/2 years so their E106 ran out some time ago. When they tried to apply for their carte vitale they were told to wait until they registered their gite and got a siret number. This they have done and gone back to get their carte vitale but with the new rules they have been refused. The gite is classed as inactif even tho they pay tax on it. They have been quoted 4500 for private 70% health cover for 2 adults, 2 children - which they cant afford. If they dont get the private cover, is this classed as illegal? Would they still get treated if they had to go into hospital? Why is a gite with a siret number classed as inactif? They have been steered in the direction of Gamex (sp?) now - fingers crossed they get some answers!
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I'm sorry to say that my knowlege of what happens for those with legitimate registered businesses is very limited (as most of the work we've done to date has been with those who are inactive).  To my mind, if the business has a Siret number, then the owner is paying cotis into some sort of employment based scheme (one or two whose names I've heard bandied about are RAMS and CAMONS) but this seems to vary.  It depends, I think, upon whom they pay the cotisations to - but to my mind this is not CMU if they are employed (as I believe gite owners with full business registration are).  But a gite owner could respond better.  Maybe ask again on the gite sub forum? I'd certainly like to know myself as for early-retired newcomers, busines registration is going to be one of the few ways to get health cover now.
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Hi

This has been discussed in detail before, your friends have probably not set up the gite business as their main income, just a side line.  You still get a siret but it's classed as non-professional.  They would know if they were paying into the health system as they would have received bills from RAM and URSSAF or the like and would be paying a minimum of 3.5k in cotisations.  The good news is that someone on the forum reported that the new scheme of only paying a percentage of income has started now so charges may be lower for them.   

They should consider though how much the gite business brings in, if not much then they might be better off to take private health cover until they been resident for 5 years when they would be eligible for CMU entry, which from what you say shouldn't be too long.   If they register the gite business now they will always be paying charges on it, with the private cover at least there is a short term end point.

They need to seek some professional advice, I think they should see an accountant, it would be money well spent.

Panda

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I knew somebody would know about this! 

The case is interesting though, as you say when their E106s ran out that they "were told" to wait until they had a siret number.  If the gite wasn't a full business with attached cotis, then they were given seriously duff adivice, as they should have joined CMU and paid into that.  If they had done so, under the health minister's recent statement, they should have been allowed to stay in the system.  Do they have any written evidence that this was what they were told?  In their shoes, I would take proof of residence since they moved along to their CPAM and at least have a go at getting into CMU on the grounds that they were here last November.  The snag is of course, that they were not legally resident as they had no health cover!  But if the CPAM told them not to bother, and they have proof that this was the case, then I think they should try to blag their way in.

Private insurance is fine and dandy in theory, but they must remember that their policy MUST cover all the things outlined HERE - and policies which truly conform to the law are very expensive.  Not only that, but if the applicant has any kind of long term or chronic condition - no matter how cheap it may be to treat day-to-day - no insurance company will cover them for that and any policy they take out will be, ipso facto, illegal.  With an illegal insurance cover, they will not be able to qualify for CMU under the five year residency rule either. 

So they need to take very great care when coming to a decision - yes, paying cotis may be pricey in the short term, but it could turn out to be a better option, as - even if the business folds at some time in the future - they will get residual health cover from  a business related state health scheme - which could help them get to the 5 year mark more easily, and legally.

It's a minefield, and they need to do a bit of careful research, before making a final decision, imo.

For more information on the insurance requirements and some of the pitfalls, see:

http://www.frenchhealthissues.eu/insurance/insurance_1.htm

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You quote these people as saying they can't afford the private cover, this would perhaps indicate they they are of limited means and that the Gite income though relatively small my be their main income?????.

Isn't it the case now that if the Gite income represents more than half of their total income then they must register and pay full cotisations anyway. Even is this is not being strictly applied in their area at the moment, I believe it is in some. Therefore it seems to me they should bite the bullet and get registered  with the Chamber of commerce now. They will pay 11%???? of their turnover, but in return get full social benefits. If they don't and there is a retrespective crackdown then they could well end up paying twice.

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Not sure if there is anything sinister in this, regarding the possible exporting of the care element of DLA to another EU country, following the ECJ ruling 18th October 2007, but on DWP's website the reference to the ruling has been removed completely.

I telephoned Newcastle asking why this reference has been removed, and enquired as to whether a decision had been reached. The gentleman I spoke to did not know why the reference had been removed, and the staff at Newcastle have not yet been informed of the UK governments decision. Just seems a little suspicious the reference has been removed, with no explanation as to the outcome either way.

 

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Yes, very odd, and obviously a bit worrying. The anouncement still appears in a fashion on the Britons living abroad webpage, but again the reference to 5th April has been removed. It has only changed this morning, as we had checked it just last night! [8-)][:-))][:@]

 

European Court of Justice ruling

On 18 October 2007 the European Court of Justice gave a judgment which deals with whether Disability Living Allowance, Attendance Allowance and Carer's Allowance should be paid to people who move from within the UK to live in another country within the EEA (European Economic Area).

It is not clear what this will mean for recipients of the affected benefits until the judgment has been fully understood. More details will be provided as they become available.

Britons Living Abroad page

 

 

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Well ebaynut looks like you and I will have to sweat over the decision a while longer yet. I never realised that the reference to the ECJ ruling was also cited under the Britons Living Abroad page, but as you say the reference to 5th April has been removed. Gut feeling tells me that this doesn't bode well, with this government trying to save every penny at the moment, I guess they feel if they can wriggle out of paying DLA to any Brit  living within the EU they will. What seems pretty obvious is that the decision isn't now going to be announced by 5th April. The guy I spoke to at Newcastle said the ECJ lawyers were in discussion with the UK lawyers regarding the decision, and that the UK government are worried that anybody from the EU can claim the benefit after 6 months of living within the UK, and then return to their own country with the benefit.

 

 

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