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wild geese

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Hi  Guys,

I found this pdf file in a government site at this link 


could make some interesting reading as it was only published in June this year. This is a clip below from the start of the file.  It may help some people.


Wild Geese

Memo DMG 14/08





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  • 2 months later...

Hi Guys,

     I think I’m getting a little paranoid but ever since I posted that link to the forum.  The government watchers have closed this loophole and amended the paragraphs that I had high-lighted to you. Web link



   I’m starting to feel a bit like Denzel Washington (the reporter) out of the film “The Pelican Brief ” finding out things that are best left alone and not uncovered.  They weren’t long about closing the loophole though      

     If you re-read the direct government web site at


       It somehow seems to be worded slightly differently to reflect the amended pdf file in the above link. Or is it just me?

     Has anyone living in France, since and after the Oct 18th 2007 EEU ruling, been getting their government benefits?  As I am being told know one since then is in receipt of anything since the ruling  

     I’m only trying to get what is rightfully mine after a lifetime of paying tax and insurance faithfully and without fail.  I jut wish I had been paying the insurance into a private pension scheme then this would all be a non-issue and I would be getting my entitlement.

     I have done everything right all these years and kept my nose clean and I served in the army and did my bit for Queen and country overseas.  You would think they the government would do the right thing by me and give me what is rightfully mine without all this petty bickering and childish behaviour

Geoff  (A seriously browned off Geoff, and that’s putting it nicely, and as good as broke for the first time in my life)
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  • 3 weeks later...

Right, spoken to the DLA again this morning, now 10 months on - and the moron on the 'help desk' shouted at me and effectively called me a liar, little oik.  But interestingly, my claim is still NOT on the computer, nor are any of those from applicants who had a claim over 14 months old - we're still waiting for 'the decision'.

Bottom line is they still have not made a decision and there's now a need for legislation, I've left my number and asked somebody from the Exportability Team to call me back, which to be fair to them they normally do.

But they managed to find out that the Minister concerned is James PURNELL, they had to look it up on the Internet because they had no idea who their minister is - now how bloody stupid is that.

So, I think we need to go on the offensive now and start sending him and Jim Murphy (Europe Minister) emails, try to pick up where the health campaign left off in some way - this is just getting ridiculous and I'm considering taking the whole thing to the press/civil rights campaigners or asking for a judicial review - people are ill and many are getting worse, I'm now sure that the UK Government is waiting for some of us to die to reduce their costs.

I'm even more p****d off because I have to see another specialist this afternoon and I've been recalled to see my oncologist tomorrow because of problems with my blood numbers - and the UK is just jerking us all around.

This posting person is severely angry now!!!!!

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Couldn't agree with you more.

We have been trying for months now to get a clear answer, and indeed are awaiting a call back from them right now!


They just seem to be trying to avoid giving a clear answer to a direct question, in the hope that we may become bored and give up....they might well win.............if it wasn't so important. 

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Dear Tony.

Due to a move to the Vendee plus one or two other things I now obviously appear as DragonRouge but I did do some postings on this question when I was in Normandie.  Indeed my wife was registered as a disabled person initially in the UK and now in France and due to Rheumatoid Arthritis qualified for DLA in the UK.  You may remember my saying at the time that it was important to appeal against any decision to deny you DLA as a result of moving here to France.  It had to be kept in front of them.

You may also remember that I am in the 'law' and have attended many tribunals and to date have won them all.  I did this on a pro bono basis for it is never my way to charge people for what is simply a little bit of my time.  Please I also do not want plaudits or applause it was just the normal thing to do.

Here may I just add a concept.

You talk about Judicial Review.  This is a High Court Action and where the Judge can do a number of things quash decisions and the like refer subject matter back to the Department who made the decision and things like that.  It is not cheap and to get there and whilst you could do it in persons the pleadings and the documents are with respect somewhat complicated and it is best to to this through a Solicitor who will brief a Barrister and you then get your hearing.  However I am not sure of todays exact cost but it could be £15k or something like that but I am not too sure of the current levels of payment for HMG are continuing to up the anti and you must be aware that the Courts are now profit centres and must pay their ways.

A JR is simply based upon a leading case and which every first year law student knows off by heart.  It is Wednesday (just google it) and it refers to a Cinema and the case goes back years and years and years.

The  questions that have to be asked of the DLA guys is one of are their actions/decision irrational illogical and unreasonable and would another Department possessed of the same background acumen experience call it what you like have acted in the same way as the DLA guys are now acting.  That is in simplistic terms the test fairly akin to the reasonable man test but which is a different part of the law.

I am sure that HMG would not want a banner headline HMG in the dock for their treatment of ......................

But how do you make the Blackpool guys move?  One thing the Judge would want is for you to demonstrate that you have utilised all the available processes before you appear in front of him.

Thus I think Blackpool has a Complaints Procedure have you used it have you appealed their decision all questions that the Judge will ask.

To my mind and I may be wrong but I think in not implimenting the judgment HMG are way out of line and perhaps six months is too long for them not to come to a decision.

Tony here again there is a maxim in law do not threaten to do something if you have no intention of doing it.  Thus if you threaten JR then you must with respect be prepared to go through with it.

Maybe a class approach is the way forward but it has strength if there are lots of signatures to any letter or whatever and of course we are dealing with highly personal stuff here so maybe not a good idea.

Perhaps a simple letter signed by all who wish to sign setting out in a one or two paragraph format the main bones of the complaints bombard everyone you know with copies tell the DLA people that the letter is an 'open letter' and you retain the right to disclose it to whomever you think needs to see it.  Post it on the web sites of the Daily papers and whatever.

If I can help in any other way then just contact me.

Another point as to the conduct of a Department and here the Non Residents Department and who I am chasing for a tax refund and where interest was deducted at source and this goes back to May of this year.  They say they do not know when I am going to get it they are under pressure and please stop chasing them for everytime I chase them means they take time out to look at my email or whatever and they cannot be in two places at the same time and thus other peoples claims stop while they look at emails.  Staffing levels are their problem not mine take it up with HMG but just pay me my money.

I used the Complaints function and I now see some movement.




kind regards




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I'm certainly in the complaints procedure alread, in fact I'm complaining about their lack of speed and response etc about my original complain of the DLA not dealing with my claim in a manner which complies with their own procedures.

And for sure, if I do start the JR process, I'll go through with it.  I'm already speaking to lawyers in the UK about the whole issue and they are starting to guide me through what we have to do - complaints procedures, Ombudsman etc - before we get to JR stage.

The issue seems to be, we're all being too nice about this - we need a campaign, like the health issues campaign, to get this up the political agenda, probably through the BBC's Money Box/You and Yours type programmes which I think tend to be more balanced and non-judgemental that the papers. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

About a year on since the European Court ruling, like all of you, I have been trying to get some idea when the issue of back payments and eligibility for EU residents will be announced.  I appreciate that the DWP have to look into many aspects and evaluate their findings, but a year?  Seems a ridiculously long time.

I have written two letters since June, but have not received even an acknowledgment; from somewhere in my files I found the following email address  exportability.team@dwp.gsi.gov.uk to which I sent a request for even an approximate timescale, but guess what..........no reply.

I have tried telephoning but only get to speak to someone on the "Help" Desk who is no better informed than I am.

As I have taken the time, trouble and expense trying to make contact with The Exportability Team, I really do expect the courtesy of a reply.  Can anyone tell me who I should write to by way of complaint; it certainly won't be any point in writing to The Exportability Team.



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Hi Martin

Been there and done that, if you had managed to trawl though some of the previous messages you'd have saved yourself a lot of bother I think.

Don't bother with the internal compaints procedure, that doesn't work either.

The only thing to do is to write to the Minister at the House of Commons - not sure who it is now tho.  And the Europe Minister also changed recently, time for a concerted letter writing campaign methinks.

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