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Abolishing ayant droit dependants 2016


Anna

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I have read in the Con****** that the gov is going to abolish ayant droit so that each individual has his or her own rights.

Please could anyone advise my procedure to follow to apply to UK etc ( it must be 6 or 7 years ago we last did the paperwork for hubbies and I have forgotten totally) as I have been lazy and piggy backed when I should have applied for my own 2 years ago, but l think like possibly a few other people I have had thoughts of " don't rock the boat, it's not broke so don't fix it" . Thank you Anna
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I can see the reasoning.. the document really refers to people of working age, for whom France is the responsible state for healthcare. As far as I understand it.. everyone will be covered in their own right, either through employment, self employed or by contribution to CMU. Where both parties are inactive and covered by CMU I suppose that would mean they would just be issued with their own CVs in their own name, and the reimbursements would go into their own accounts. The report doesn't say how they will treat someone who has rights because they are a dependant of someone who's healthcare is paid for by another member state. Would it not just mean that the UK still pays for both, but you get CVs in your own individual names?

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So what would happen if-like us-we qualify by contribution, but I personally don't have enough money in my own right to qualify? Most of our income comes from my husband's pension. I know quite a few couples like this-no OAP,not working and the wife with less income than the husband (in some cases no income at all)
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Could someone advise if I just proceed as if I was applying for the first time or is it different because I had been piggy backing .Is this the form I would apply with, please.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/452226/Form_S1_v_08-2015.pdf
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I don't think so as, at just a first glance, the form says it is for stateless persons - which you are not.

You need to ring DWP  0044 (0)191 21 81 999 and speak to someone who will be able to explain what you need to do.

Please stop panicking - this is a measure that is being brought in gradually and you will not be chucked out of CPAM or France for not having the right form today.

Sue

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Anna

When I agreed to take early retirement, my wife (who already had an S1) simply wrote the DWP explaining the situation and that she would like me to be added to her S1. An S1 for me arrived almost by return of post - and 6 months before needed even though they had been given a commencement date. That at least allowed CPAM to begin to get their ducks in line well in advance.
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Really the best thing to do is phone them. The staff are very helpful and patient and they work through lunchtime as well !

One scottish chap I was speaking to refused to end our call when I said he must stop helping me as he had finished work for the day ... he finally agreed to end our call about 10 mins later when he had made his point.

As I said they are v helpful.

0044 (0)191 21 81 999

Edit: another forum indicates a slightly different number 0044 (0)191 21 87 777

... though my number worked for me in January and March this year.

Sue

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The department to contact depends on the type of S1 form you are applying for.

The forms issued by the DWP or HMRC

The numbers for the DWP are on this website

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/movingabroad/Pages/Introduction.aspx

The link Norman posted is for the "workers" family S1.

It all got a bit complicated when the EU decided to simplify the form numbers ;)
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I'm not clear after reading the document how my situation will be affected financially. As an early retiree I pay social charges already on my NHS pension (7.1% in total) but am an ayant droit on my wife's RSI cover. If I am to have my own heathcare rights as a 'stable inhabitant in France', does that mean that I must pay another 8% in social charges to get access to CMUb? If so, what does my 7.1% that I already pay go towards? If anyone has any links to relevant info re this I'd be most grateful
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Hi again, the official document (which Norman kindly gave a link to) makes quite interesting reading. Firstly, the 'ayants droit' status will be phased out gradually, and those wishing to remain under that umbrella will be able to do so until 2020. For me therefore, the question of the need to contribute a further 8% in social charges in order to have access to CMUb cover is not so important as yet. Secondly, the document quite clearly states that all individuals with regular, stable residence in France will be entitled to cover at least under CMUb. Moreover, and relevant particularly to those of us early-retirees without employment or S1 coverage, the document clearly states that to qualify for state health cover will require having resided regularly in France for only 6 months, a move away from the 5 years previously adopted (and legislated against by the EU).

If my understanding of the text is correct, it seems in fact that, rather unexpectedly, France is moving to a system of individual state health care entitlement based wholly on legitimate residency, much as exists in the UK, with a relatively short time threshold for obtaining such entitlement. The document goes on to say that instead of spending time and money checking on an individual's professional status, their legitimacy as an ayant droit, and any changes to these circumstances, etc, all checks can be concentrated on the issue of legitimate residency. The fact that ayants droit are being allowed to retain their status if desired until 2020 suggests that the motive for the change to universal individual rights to state heath cover isn't simply to rake in more cotisations from those losing the ayants droit status. It seems a genuine move to make the system more efficient, more user friendly, less bureaucratic and (in some circumstances) more confidential.

For as long as the UK remains in the EU, the changes may be encouraging for those planning to take early retirement and migrate to France from the UK. Whereas the issue of the financial contribution to CMUb is not mentioned in the press document, it nonetheless means that the need to prove 5 years French residence and therefore to have paid 5 years of comprehensive private health cover to access the French healthcare system seems officially to be at an end.
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I read it as a move towards giving women health care in their own name, rather than depending on the husband, and as a way of protecting those who change from one branch to another so they don't lose out in the change over.

I don't see much about changing from a contribution-based system which is normal Europe-wide, to the weird exception of  a residence-based one that the UK has.

Residence will be checked to see that the person really is entitled to cover, which will avoid all the claims by spouses who actually live abroad...

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You're right Norman, there is certainly no indication that the need to contribute will change, and therefore the system will still differ widely from that of the UK. It will be interesting however to see if individual access to the new 'Protection universelle maladie' for former ayants droit will be cotisation free if their circumstances haven't changed, and at least one of the household has access to healthcare through employment, self-employment, or some other means. Either way, no change to the ayants droit status will be obligatory until 2020, by which time the dust will have settled, so no need for anyone to be panicking about 'un piggy-backing' quite yet.
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The details of how it will be implemented seem very thin on the ground, so for the moment we can only do as you have done and consult the paper.

It is intended as an improvement rather than being driven by cost-cutting, so one hopes that for example one member of the family could have cover by working and the other person  with no income could be covered  by the CMU de base without having to depend on the others contributions.

Individuals treated as such rather than being seen as dependents.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Just a thought following the abolishment of the CMUb from the 1 Jan 2016 (we are in it as a family of 4). As I read the new rules (which are below), there are TWO conditions to fulfill. One concerns the titre de sejour, which as EU members, British people do not need. However, if the referendum takes the UK out of the EU, I presume if you have not appied for or got dual French/UK nationality (which we have), you will have to get one!

Les conditions d’accès

Pour bénéficier de la protection universelle maladie il faut remplir deux conditions :

1- Résider en France de manière régulière

Il faut avoir la nationalité française ou être titulaire d’un titre de séjour ou avoir entamé des démarches pour obtenir un titre de séjour.

Pour en savoir en savoir plus sur la condition de résidence régulière, cliquez ici

2- Résider en France de manière stable

Il faut vivre en France métropolitaine ou dans un département d'outre-mer de manière ininterrompue depuis au moins trois mois.

Il existe des cas particuliers, pour en savoir plus sur la condition de résidence stable, cliquez ici
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How long have you been in the system Lehaut. I only ask because we have been in the system since 2008. (I piggyback off my husband so it may well affect me.) However, this is the first year that we were not asked to fill in the usual blue form nor send a copy of our passports or OH's driving licence. In fact all we had to do was send 6 months of EDF bills and return these with the letter they'd sent to us. It was as if we had finally passed the test!

Now I don't know but maybe if someone has passed the 5 year rule it wont be necessary to supply a titre de sejour which 9 years ago I was told wasn't necessary and they wouldn't even consider it even though I don't have a driving licence and so my only ID is carrying around my passport every time I leave the front door.

Do wish they'd get on with it though.

Mrs KG
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Slightly off the main point but I recommend carrying a photocopy of your passport and leaving the original in a safe place.

I have had my wallet stolen and my ID with it (in my case my French carte de séjour so my passport was still safe)  and since then I never carry the original.

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We have been in the system since 1999. Last year was the first time we have sent off just our French tax return, before that we had the usual paperwork to send. We did not get a bill for the last quarter, just estimated it and paid on line. Since then I have emailed them to confirm they had received it (they changed all their bank details). Got a reply the next day, but no other info.

I too have taken to carry photocopies, but in this case the Carte a Grise for our vehicles, especially our motorbike. I also have a copy of all important documents on the "cloud" (dropbox) so that in extremis, I could print off a copy no matter what country we are in.
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[quote user="knee gel"]How long have you been in the system Lehaut. I only ask because we have been in the system since 2008. (I piggyback off my husband so it may well affect me.) However, this is the first year that we were not asked to fill in the usual blue form nor send a copy of our passports or OH's driving licence. In fact all we had to do was send 6 months of EDF bills and return these with the letter they'd sent to us. It was as if we had finally passed the test!

Now I don't know but maybe if someone has passed the 5 year rule it wont be necessary to supply a titre de sejour which 9 years ago I was told wasn't necessary and they wouldn't even consider it even though I don't have a driving licence and so my only ID is carrying around my passport every time I leave the front door.

Do wish they'd get on with it though.

Mrs KG[/quote]

It sounds like they are using EDF bills to prove the 6 months residence within one year, and if you look on the RSI website here

https://www.rsi.fr/zoom/la-protection-universelle-maladie.html

- the indication is that cotisations will be calculated automatically based on information from the tax office.
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