Gardian Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 A big item in the News at the moment in the UK.It got me wondering as to how we would get on over here vs where we used to live in the UK. I'm not talking about a horrible motorway crash which might involve helicopter evacuation: simply a nasty domestic accident or an incidence of extreme out-of-hours 'unwellness', where you were OK enough to be taken there asap by somebody else.I do understand that it depends entirely on how rural the place where you live is. However ............. we're pretty rural here and probably no more than 20 minutes from our local hospital A & E. From experience, they're good there. Where we used to be in the UK (densely-populated Thames Valley), they've closed the hospital A & E (5 mins away) and you'd now be faced with a 45 min drive.I just wondered whether you'd care to post your answers as to how long for you, whether in the UK or France? If co-located, both.I'm not making a whingeing statement about the UK - as so often (HS2 is an example), I can't help feeling that the changes have been badly sold to the public at large. Having said that, I just think that getting somebody close to medical attention asap, with a possible subsequent move to a centre of expertise for their problem, makes more sense. In short, the status quo.How is it for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 We've got two A&E's within easy reach in the UK: 10 and maybe 15 minutes away. In France, we've also got two, one probably 10-15 minutes away and the other about 25 minutes.Luck of the draw, a bit. I think when we bought both houses it didn't even come up on our radar that we should know how far it was to the nearest hospital. Being (also) in the Thames valley, I doubt we'll ever be too far from an A&E. My experience in both France and the UK tends to suggest that if it's not life or death, you could crawl there on your hands and knees in the time you spend waiting to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 There are 3 emergency services in town ( 10 minutes in an ambulance once it arrives) and in very serious cases a helicopter takes people to Montpellier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre ZFP Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Actually I have no idea where my (French) A&E is. Never really thought about it.Is there website or similar where I could find out please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 We live in a country village, 25 minutes from town, which is also where the local A&E is, at a cottage-type hospital. Main hospitals 45/50 minutes away.We've only used A&E once, when my wife fell and broke her foot one evening. A 25-minute drive there, immediate attention, x-ray, painkillers, splint and crutches and we were back home less than 2 hours after the accident.Plus, we got a daily visit from the nurse to administer anti-DVT injections for the next 5 weeks. Where we lived in UK it was 20 minutes to the A&E, traffic permitting, but then anything up to 5 hours waiting to be seen while all the drink and drug cases pile up.No guess which we prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyinfrance Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 We live less than five minutes' walk from the main county hospital in Brighton - that's the good news.The bad news is an 8 hour wait is not unknown, especially at weekends when the drink/drug crowd is in evidence. A friend recently had this experience and after all that time was shunted up to Haywards Heath hospital.Happily we have never needed A&E........(hope that's not tempting fate) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Back to the postcode lottery, I guess. OH was taken by the pompiers to our local A&E in France after a nasty fall from his bike. I think we were there for 4 hours and he came out still covered in blood which they couldn't be bothered to clean off. He had to have about 3 months of treatment back in the UK for an injury they didn't even detect whilst he was in hospital in France. And when the pompiers came for him it turned out he'd chosen to have his accident bang on the line between the jurisdiction of two different hospitals, so two lots of pompiers turned up and spent 15 minutes arguing the toss about who was going to take him, and to which hospital, whilst he sat there in pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Interestingly, the NHS is obliged to publish weekly stats for A&E admissions these days. According to those, last week alone there were 388,678 admissions to A&E last week in the UK, of which it appears 96.4% were seen in under 4 hours. Brighton managed just over 95% in this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyinfrance Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 who said there are lies, damned lies, and statistics?I believe practically nothing from the police on crime statistics nor the NHS on their performance since they mostly report/don't report according to what makes them look best. The BBC recently ran a news item (this week I think) about a hospital which as has been hauled up for telling fibs about how soon patients are being treated: it seems the managers obliged the number crunchers to actively misrepresent the position..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Whereas your forensically accurate "It happened to a mate but I've never been there" is to be taken as completely representative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 My casse-cul youngest son and sometimes the eldest one too, had me aux urgences more times than I care to remember. 8 to ten hours were a normal wait. Remains the same, so friends tell me. I have only been to A&E with him about 4 or 5 times in England and our wait has been from half an hour to a couple of hours, I'm trying to remember if we have been there longer than three, but can't. Our nearest A&E is about 15 to 20 minutes, but traffic can slow that down. it was half an hour in France, same same with traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]Back to the postcode lottery, I guess. OH was taken by the pompiers to our local A&E in France after a nasty fall from his bike. I think we were there for 4 hours and he came out still covered in blood which they couldn't be bothered to clean off. He had to have about 3 months of treatment back in the UK for an injury they didn't even detect whilst he was in hospital in France. And when the pompiers came for him it turned out he'd chosen to have his accident bang on the line between the jurisdiction of two different hospitals, so two lots of pompiers turned up and spent 15 minutes arguing the toss about who was going to take him, and to which hospital, whilst he sat there in pain.[/quote]Which gets me thinking ...........Just how well trained are the "medics " provided by the pompiers .?... Are they scoop you up and run for the hospital or are they trained well enougth enough to stabilise patients at the scene or in the ambulance before leaving your home ? . I ask because if I need them in France I know that the doctor near the place they keep the ambulance if he is available sometimes turns out and goes with them if he needs to So just how well trained are they ? Can they give injections ? Do they even carry morphine ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 From Wiki (take it as you will)The French philosophy on emergency medical care is to provide a higher level of care at the scene of the incident, and so SMUR (Service Mobile d'Urgence et Reanimation[8]) units are staffed by a qualified physician along with a nurse and/or emergency medical technician. This contrasts with systems in other parts of the world, notably the Anglo-Saxon countries (United Kingdom, United States, Australia etc.) where care on scene is conducted primarily by paramedics or emergency medical technicians, with physicians only becoming involved on scene at the most complex or large scale incidents.The result is that a SMUR unit will typically spend a long time on scene compared with a paramedic ambulance in a different system, as the physician may conduct a full set of observations, examinations and interventions before removal to hospital. This feature is often contrasted the British or American system, especially in high profile incidents, such as the death of Diana, Princess of Wales in Paris, where the nearly 2 hour delay before arrival at hospital has been ascribed by some as a major contributory factor in her death.[9][10]SMUR units are hospital based and although the vehicles are typically labelled 'SAMU,' that term actually refers to the overall integrated service which controls multiple SMUR units (perhaps even from multiple hospitals) and all emergency care resources within a community from GP to Hospital Intensive Care services.Despite being hospital based, a SMUR unit may choose to transport a patient to an alternative hospital, where the best definitive care may be provided, and are not necessarily tied to the hospital of origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 No, the pompiers don't give injections (I asked) so I don't suppose they carry morphine as that would mean injecting it.I don't know whether they have defibrilators or other equipment to resuscitate people. I assume they must carry oxygen.Earlier this year, I called SAMU but pompiers turned up instead and they appeared to have called our own doctor out. I don't exactly know the sequence of events as I was a bit distracted at the time.I would be interested in hearing other people's experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Despite the article I quoted I think in fact that depending on the information given by the person calling the ordinary "pompiers" are sent out first then ask for backup from the SAMU/helicopter etc if circumstances so dictate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Well, I dunno whether the people who picked OH up off the tarmac were SMURFs or pompiers or something else, but they seemed singularly uninterested in anything much except filling in forms (which I had to deal with, having been called to the scene by OH and the nice men who scraped him up) and debating where they were going to take him and WHO was going to take him. I was a bit preoccupied, but nonetheless a little perturbed at just how much (or rather how little) attention was given to the actual patient whilst all the associated form-filling and demarkation dispute was going on. OH kept protesting to me that he was quite happy just to go home, and, given the care he actually received and the benefit of hindsight, I feel that might have been the best thing all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Why did you call the SAMU sweet17?No way on this earth would I ever call the SAMU when I live in the sticks. They would have half an hour's drive to get to our house and then another half an hour to get back to the hospital. The Sapeurs Pompiers are in the village and they are out quickly once that siren goes.......... and whisked off to whereever immediately. If I had a real emergency, then I would have called the SP's and my GP, just in case they were available too. And at the moment there is a lack of volunteers to be SP's, which in France will cause a big problem in the future if more people don't come forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard51 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 A subject very close to my heart.I have no time at all for the stupid idiots who complain atthe first sign of a closure to a “local” hospital or A and E dept.I will not go deeply into the arguments for specialistcentres which may be a further distance away than their local “hospital” orwhatever it is called. I will confine myself to reiterate a view/situation that I have heldfor perhaps 30 years and is only now being addressed, after I am retired. I was in charge of a certain department in alarge (now got teaching status) hospital and, as specialisation was required, wegave services to several hospitals within the region. One of these hospitalsactually had a management “vision” to take over our larger hospital that was 15miles away but was not the county town. There is an irony in that now this hospitalis likely (about time) to be run, management wise, by the hospital in which Iworked. Over the years I ensured that the equipment that we had toperform the investigations was as up to date as possible and I think that theexaminations/therapies we performed were state of the art. I did not reallyworry too much about the surroundings in a Victorian building in which theequipment was housed, apart from general cleanliness. The aforesaid hospital had a totally new hospital build and actually,to my disgust and against my advice, transferred their, then current, equipmentto the new hospital. Wonderful building and much praised by visiting personsand inspecting bodies. No interest in the equipment used! Only interested inperforming the very routine exams.Money got tighter and also I, personally, came into criticismby the changed management structure at my hospital, because the environment wassomewhat shabby. My requests for better equipment were ignored by the new waveof “management” executives and any money allocated to the department wenttowards painting the walls or “improving” the waiting rooms (stupidity ofstupidity – carpets). I retired 2 years ago at the same time as “my” hospitalwhich was very spread out moved into a new PFI hospital building. A privatecontract now supplies, and maintains, the equipment used in this hospital. I think the department is in a good position to moveforward despite the "management" because it is so big and cannot fail.The aforementioned hospital has been involved in quite some nationalpolitical debate. Because of idiot local campaigners in the area it is still thereas too large an enterprise for the area that it serves.It cannot be expected that experts are available locally everywhere.Let the the most economical and efficient way to providehealthcare without demanding care on the doorstep be provided. Paramedics are the local contact.NB PFI and privatisation really does create another issue –how can management in the NHS avoid commercial decisions yet demand their salaries be areon a par with the private sector! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Betty said:'Being (also) in the Thames valley, I doubt we'll ever be too far from an A&E. My experience in both France and the UK tends to suggest that if it's not life or death, you could crawl there on your hands and knees in the time you spend waiting to be seen.'Having retired from the NHS may I comment......At one of our hospitals the A&E was redesigned with a dedicated entrance for ambulance cases. Prior to this there was only one entrance so walk ins and ambulance arrivals went in via the same entrance.In the old setup there was little complaint about having to wait to have sometimes a trivial thing looked at (and believe me some people present at A&E with things that are most certainly NOT urgent) as they saw people coming in on stretchers in a bad way and far more in need of urgent treatment.The new setup means that those with a boil on the bum do not see the person clinging to life come in so moan about the wait.Perhaps if people used A&E for what they are intended then waiting times would not be so long - they are not an alternative to the GP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 We are 5 minutes from the local A&E 10 minutes in traffic.We were seen very promptly earlier this year( 10 mins) when we arrived with my husband in severe pain, which turned out to be a kidney stone.....maybe taking a small bucket with us( he was nauseous ) helped?We were there several hours but that was because they were trying to ease his pain, he was having an X-ray etc....One side was a lady who was 'sleeping it off' and the other a slightly confused elderly lady who had a fall, and whose son and daughter in law were pretty annoyed at being asked to attend urgently when not much seemed to be happening......they were very pleased when a bed was found and after an hour or so they could go.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 [quote user="PaulT"]The new setup means that those with a boil on the bum do not see the person clinging to life come in so moan about the wait.Perhaps if people used A&E for what they are intended then waiting times would not be so long - they are not an alternative to the GP[/quote]I have to laugh a little at this, not because I disagree, but because I'm forever berating my kids for NOT going to A&E with clearly serious injuries. Particularly my eldest son, who insists on going into his local NHS walk-in centre "When I've got time" after repeatedly getting knocked off his bike in central London by mad drivers. Each time he's gone to the walk-in centre, he's promptly been sent to A&E...and he's within staggering distance of Kings College Hospital. Must admit, when the offspring were younger there was little problem, as our local A&E had a dedicated children's section, so they were separated out from the adult patients and usually seen fairly swiftly.Personally, the last time I visited a hospital it was also a walk-in centre, after I'd been bitten by a dog. I assumed my GP wouldn't be able to see me straight away, and it seemed serious enough to require treatment (it was) but not serious enough to warrant a trip to A&E. In any case, I don't even know who my GP is, as I can't remember the last time I saw him or her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Betty, aren't they now talking about doing away with walk-in centres as they are deemed not to be cost effective?I am not sure of my facts here but I thought I caught in passing, that is in passing between the dog and the husband playing on the floor, a bit of an interview with somebody or other about this?Would be interesting if you could comment as I thought that these walk-in centres were an excellent alternative if you were sort of between boil on the bum and gasping your last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 In the UK our nearest A & E is about 25 minutes away and has excellent up-to-date facilities.In France it's about 15 minutes away. We once visited with my other half and waited for ages because the doctor was out on an emergency. There seems to be something in the paper every week about it closing down.There used to be a walk-in centre in the middle of Loughborough which was easily accessible it has now been replaced by one on the outskirts which you would have to drive to. The site of the original one has been re-developed as student housing. Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Is the new one easily accessible for the Uni campus by any chance ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Spot on RH. Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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