Better not be in a hurry to see a Doctor

[NormanH]

The results of an enquiry by the Ministry of Health into the length of time one has to wait to get an appointment are out today.

They seem optimistic to me, but still show the large differences between specialisms, with opthalmologues  and dermatologues among those where the wait is the longest:

https://drees.solidarites-sante.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/er1085-2.pdf

An article about it in LeMonde

https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2018/10/08/rendez-vous-medicaux-2-jours-pour-un-generaliste-7-semaines-pour-un-ophtalmologue_5366495_4355770.html

[Patf]

It looks as if France is going the same way as the UK.

With an ophthalmologist the waiting list has always been long. Husband had to wait 5 months, 3 years ago. Though they would fit you in if urgent.

I'm surprised about the generalistes though. Ours had 3 mornings a week when you could go and be seen without an appt., after a long wait unless you got there at 8am.

I had to see a cardialogue every year and rang in Nov. for a March appt.

Husband could get an appt. with his rheumatalogue the following week.

[YCCMB]

I heard this a lot from friends over the summer. Our village doctors has been at least one GP short for over two years now, so even those with an appointment can be waiting 2 hours to be seen once they're at the surgery.

One friend returned to the UK (as they've only just become permanent residents in France, they still hadn't cancelled their private UK cover) after learning she'd have to wait 5 months to see an ophthalmologist in France. My neighbour has a specialist appointment for November, made in June.

Local wisdom seems to be that people need to travel to Rochefort instead of Saintes to be seen more quickly. Three times the distance...

[richard51]

Radiologists are paid ridiculous amounts in France compared to UK. That is even excluding Private issues as well.

Funny world isn't it.

[richard51]

Called post code lottery Queenie - very simple really.

Do friends or even those living in France need to be able to afford private health care in the UK to survive?

[woolybanana]

Generally I can see the doc locally either the same or the next day.

Are radiologists in UK qualified doctors?

[richard51]

Wb - absolutely they are! -plus a few more years training

Are you thinking of radiographers?

[woolybanana]

Me too thick to tell the difference, dickdick!

Like the blood test labs, I think the radiological services are run by private individuals or groups. Which makes them very efficient.

[richard51]

Twaddle - clinical opinion is a massive part of the service

Given the lack of knowledge of both of the services how can you tell if they are efficient or not.

A bit like asking the cleaner/"manager" of the lab if the result of the blood test does mean that the patient, given ALL the clinical details and the numerical results, has cancer (or whatever) or not.

There is a massive difference between a description of a test result and a clinical opinion.

And GPs rely very much on specialist opinion!!!

Or do you know better

[woolybanana]

Actually, dickdick I do have experience of both and was impressed by both.

The clinical treatment I received in both was excellent.

Did you get in a twaddle because I mentioned the word ‘private’?

[idun]

Our son needed lab tests done and took the sample along to the lab closest to home, he lives in a French city. This lab was always busy, but it had closed.

He took the sample to another lab and the results are taking a week. This is a follow up, never taken his long before.

The good news is that on french news they have said that the secu is doing just fine.Black hole gone.

The bad news is that they said on another news broadcast that hospitals were in the red and struggling.

Friends in France complain of waiting times for all sorts of interventions.

Things have worsened here in England with the NHS over the last few months, I put much down to cr ap management and empire building. And no one will convince me otherwise. The medical staff are great and I feel for them.

[woolybanana]

Basic blood tests for diabetes locally , turn up at 0800 for test, results out by 1700, online to me and the doctor.

[richard51]

Ah WB I am not surprised that you have experience of radiology and pathology - most people over a certain age have. The departments are professionally headed by radiologists and pathologists (of various specialities).

In the UK, (and I assume its the same or similar in France) you will therefore know that EVERY exposure to ionising radiation needs to be justified by a medically qualified practitioner or an operator acting under the written instructions of a medical practitioner. Similarly for the report, medics are responsible

For the details see the IR(ME)R statutory instrument.

Ionising Radiations (Medical Exposure) Regulations.

I suspect that private companies are happy to pay much more to few medics and pay less (and get poorer performance as a result) to the people acting as operators!!!

That is how private companies make their money for the shareholders.

If you are a shareholder I can see why you are happy about the system. Otherwise I fail to see how you can possibly agree with the system - except for dubious political dogma.

[woolybanana]

Not here, Dickdick, as their payments are tightly controlled by the SECU.

[idun]

I would hope that diabetic tests were done very quickly, but they are not the tests my son needed to done.

[richard51]

OK - I was purely describing the workings of the system as I saw it from the inside during my working life - actually in both pathology and Radiology departments.

Plainly ideology Trumps such experience.

Carry on with your club.

[pomme]

There was a reader comment in the le Figaro article on this today about it taking 8 months to get a gynecology appointment in one area. Hopefully there is some fast-track procedure?

[woolybanana]

But, to be fair, didkdick, Inget my eyes and glasses sorted in UK as my French experience was unfortunate.

[NormanH]

As often in France one can disagree on the basis of personal experience and both be right.

I have seen a recent  worsening in the Medical centre in Béziers where I have been a patient for 20 years, since they have had to amalgamate with another practice out of town because they were unable to find  replacements for two GPs who have just retired.

Now my médecin traitant is only there on Mondays and Tuesdays whereas he was there five days a week before (he is at the other surgery which is a drive away on the other two days)

My country place had a different system by which it could take 3 weeks to see a specific GP but there was always someone on call each day if you were prepared to take pot luck and wait 2/3 hours often to see a locum.

This issue of the difficulty of finding replacements for old-style 'médecin de famille' who worked anti-social hours is just starting to be felt but if one looks at the demographics it is a bit of a time-bomb.

This is why the abolition of the numerus clausus 

which limits the number of medical students who can continue after the first year's study has just been announced

http://www.europe1.fr/sante/suppression-du-numerus-clausus-en-medecin-une-revolution-necessaire-3748535

but this will take several years to work through and some people fear for the effect on the quality of new Doctors.

[NormanH]

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2018/10/09/01016-20181009ARTFIG00367--le-figaro-publie-une-carte-inedite-des-deserts-medicaux-en-france.php

[alittlebitfrench]

Have you noticed on your map Mr Norman that the places lacking in doctors/medical professionals tend to be in places where expats/immigrants move to !!! Cheap housing comes to mind.

You have to agree that doctors don't want to work in rural/dodgy areas. Would you ?

As I understand France has never had so many employed medical professionals.

When I was in Paris I got an eye appointment within a week for an eye test. Thankfully he spotted (by chance) that I was going slowly blind.

Everything was sorted within a month.

If I lived in the Dordogne for example (sorry mint) I could be blind by now.

Draw your own conclusions.

[Patf]

Our local paper often had articles about this problem. One  reason for newly trained doctors to prefer to work in a town or city was that their spouse also needs to work. And rural areas don't have many work opportunities.

I think I've posted this before (our doctor and his family):

https://www.ladepeche.fr/article/2017/09/27/2653500-medecin-de-famille-avec-ses-parents-et-son-grand-pere.html

You can see that the young man said he tried to persuade some of his friends to work in the Gers but they weren't interested.

[YCCMB]

Although, added to this, I'm led to believe that in our village practice, the two existing and quite old GP's who remain have a somewhat inflated idea of the value of their practice and have so far preferred to soldier on rather than reduce what they're asking for another doctor to buy into their practice.

[mint]

And now it appears that many hospital are running a financial deficit.

I was reading an article about a hospital in Angouleme having to cut back beds to save money and that the staff were becoming very worried.  I was at my kiné's which is in Departement 16, the Charente.  That's why the article was about a Charentais hospital specifically but the article mentioned hospitals in other places as well.

I am not ashamed to say that my glance fell straightaway on the reduction in cancer beds:  strange how your attention is most riveted by what has the most effect on you[:-))]  But beds in heart and lung wards, paediatric, surgical, etc have been reduced also.  Couldn't read in greater detail because the kiné called me in after only a couple of minutes as he, at any rate, does not seem to suffer from excessive demand on his services!

[Patf]

Mint - It's not new.

I read in our local paper about 2 years go that our main departmental hospital in Auch was having financial problems too. Having to decide whether to cut down on staff or putting up fees.

Hoping you still get the care you need.

otoh last year at this time I was in Auch hospital for 5 days for tests for a stomach ulcer and there were many empty beds in the ward (gastrointestinal.)