bettyboop Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Have had our house in France for nearly 20 years, seriously considering moving over shortly..we are 63 and 60...would be selling our UK house and living on the proceeds,with no income...my question is Would we have to have Private Medical Insurance orCan we apply to CPAM/PUMA.....I understand its 8% of your earnings, but as we have none, would it be 8% of our UK house proceeds.Has anyone else done this recently.tia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pomme Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I would start by reading https://www.remaininfrance.org/living-legally-in-france-before-brexit.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinBretagne Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 They don’t take 8% of your savings but they work out a theoretical income from the capital. If that’s considered to be sufficient they will charge you 8% of that sum above @ €9600.Have you considered letting the U.K. property to generate an income? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 Agree with the previous posters.It's regarded more favourably by the French authorities if you make your savings generate a secure regular income, rather than just spending them, potentially until there is none left. As said, there is some kind of formula they use to arrive at a notional income figure if all you have is savings, but they seem to have a fair amount of discretion and since French law actually specifies income levels not saving levels, contesting an unfavourable decision might be difficult.Looking at the bigger picture, the criteria you need to meet in order to live legally in France, are essentially the same criteria you need to meet to be accepted for PUMA (ie sufficient income to be self supporting, as per EU Freedom of Movement directive). So, if you're not eligible to join PUMA then you're probably not going to be eligible for a carte de séjour either, and if Brexit comes to pass, living below the radar is going to be a lot more hassle than it has been in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2651There is not anything complicated about this at the moment, it is clearly indicated on the service public web site........ for EU members. Post brexit, may change the game.You will have certain conditions to adhere to for five years. The link should be live, but the pertinent part is below.Although for the life of me, how people manage to live on such a small amount of money, especially as one has to pay for private health insurance......... strange[blink]. However, that is revenue, and you say that you will live on savings, and I do wonder if that is the same????? would they accept it.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Entrée en FrancePour entrer en France :vous devez être muni d'un titre d'identité ou d'un passeport en cours de validité,et vous ne devez pas représenter une menace pour l'ordre public.Conditions de séjourEn tant qu'inactif ou retraité, vous devez :disposer d'une assurance maladie-maternité,et avoir des ressources suffisantes pour ne pas devenir une charge dans le système d'assistance sociale français.Votre droit au séjour sur ces 5 années peut être prouvé par tout moyen (par exemple concernant vos ressources : relevés bancaires).Jusqu'à 65 ans (actif)À partir de 65 ansJusqu'à 65 ansLe caractère suffisant de vos ressources est apprécié en tenant compte de votre situation personnelle. Dans tous les cas, l'administration ne peut pas exiger que vos ressources dépassent les montants suivants par mois :Ressources suffisantesConditionsMontantsSi vous vivez seul(e)Sans enfant559,74 €Avec 1 enfant958,37 €Avec 2 enfants1 197,97 €Avec 3 enfants1 438 €Avec 4 enfants 1 677 €Si vous vivez en coupleSans enfant839,62 €Avec 1 enfant1 007,55 €Avec 2 enfants1 175,47 €Avec 3 enfants1 399,37 €Avec 4 enfants1 567,29 €Revenir au sommaire de cette partieDemande de carte de séjourVous n'êtes pas obligé de posséder un titre de séjour.Toutefois, vous avez le droit demander une carte de séjour Citoyen UE/EEE/Suisse - Non actif.Droit au séjour permanentAprès 5 années de résidence légale et ininterrompue en France, vous obtenez un droit au séjour permanent. Vous pouvez prouver votre droit au séjour sur les 5 années précédentes par tout moyen (relevés bancaires). Vous n'avez ensuite plus besoin de justifier les conditions de votre séjour (ressources). Vous pouvez demeurer définitivement en France, sous réserve de ne pas représenter une menace grave pour l'ordre public.Vous pouvez demander une carte de séjour Citoyen UE/EEE/Suisse - Séjour permanent - Toutes activités professionnelles, ce n'est pas obligatoire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindal1000 Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 If you don't have a mortgage or kids then it's perfectly possible to live on 839 per month as a couple. Private top up health insurance isn't compulsory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 I did not mention top up insurance at all. I just mentioned what was said on the french servicepublic web site.Conditions de séjourEn tant qu'inactif ou retraité, vous devez :disposer d'une assurance maladie-maternité,Which basically says that for those who do not work, or are retired, they are duty bound, (which I would say is actually 'obliged' as a proper definition) to have health and maternity insurance. It, nor I, mentioned top up and I would hazard a guess that that would have to be private health insurance, what else is there???And why not, medical bills can be horrific and I am sure that the french would want to ensure that all bills would be paid by the insurance by everyone who was not in the french health system and five years is a long time.Could I live on 560€ a month if on my own, including paying private health insurance......... perhaps, but I would not want to. For a couple with the extra insurance, I would prefer not to either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindal1000 Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 You can opt into PUMA (what was CMU). You would pay 8% of any income over 9000 euros. So with an income of 839 per month you would pay 8% of 1000 euros. Even Americans and Australians can opt into PUMA now..anyone can..it was one of Macron's changes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 As an EU citizen, as long as you meet the criteria for legal residence you can affiliate to PUMA after 3 months. That is then your compulsory insurance sorted.For evidence of health coverage during the first three months, in practice many CPAM seems to accept an EHIC or not ask at all, although it is a grey area.As a non EU citizen applying for a visa you would have no option but to provide proof of adequate health insurance as part of the visa application process.Once you're here and past the first 3 months, well the U in PUMA is for Universelle. PUMA provides healthcare to everyone living in France 'in a stable and regular manner", so nobody who is here legally needs to take out private health insurance. In fact you are more or less obliged to join PUMA these days. PUMA cotisations for inactifs and retirees are billed automatically by URSSAF based on the figures on your tax return, even if you have never registered for PUMA. When the first PUMA bills were sent out at the beginning of last year, there were Brits trying to contest their bills on the basis that they shouldn't have to pay cotisations when they'd never had a carte vitale. I don't know what the outcome was but I suspect they had to pay up as a solidarity thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinBretagne Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 Rather than look at a web page and suggest what might happen after Brexit why not look at the pages that explain exactly what will be required.https://mobile.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/Le-ministere-de-l-Interieur-se-prepare-au-Brexit/Sejour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 I didn't think we were suggesting what might happen after Brexit were we? We were discussing the current rules for joining PUMA. Which aren't going to change because of Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinBretagne Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 Why mention Brexit then? Why also the red herrings about five years of private insurance cover, you need three months stable residence to join PUMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 Maybe we're looking at different threads but I can only see one reference to Brexit in this thread, and that was me flagging up that Brexit will trigger keener scrutiny of how Brits are exercising FoM. The relevance being that moving to France with zero actual income is potentially a grey area as far as France's interpretation of FoM is concerned, hence it could cause problems being recognised as legally resident and by the same token could cause problems getting accepted onto PUMA.I don't know where the red herrings came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 Yes, I was out of touch, it certainly was 5 years........ and now down to three months to join. For someone not working that seems to be un sejour tres tres court......... I suppose because I have friends who holiday longer than that..... and they would never consider they had moved somewhere else.Also, how will income as opposed to living off savings be judged....... I do not know and I would suppose neither does anyone else on here. As we all know that each prefecture has it's own interpretations, one may find it OK and another see things quite differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 Three months is significant because technically that is the longest you are allowed to stay in France as a visitor.To play strictly by the rules, after 3 months you either start doing the things that residents are required to do, or you leave.Another thing that will likely be more rigorously enforced on Brits after Brexit, but BinB doesn't want Brexit mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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