Rapid roll-out of vaccine? Yes, but not in France....!

[mint]

Try as I might I could not find any information on why the French are proceeding with SO much caution with the vaccine.

Yes, we see pictures, endless ones, of people being vaccinated throughout Europe but France is curiously muted in its programme of vaccination that was hailed with such enthusiasm by Macron, Castex and Véran.  There is no public announcement by Santé Publique France on this subject.

Why have only FIFTY FIVE people been vaccinated?  Why the deafening silence on what is really happening behind the scenes?  Has anyone on here seen, read, heard anything about this?

Could you please tell us if you have knowledge or even an opinion?  I had to add "your opinion" because otherwise there will be NO replies!

[Lori]

I searched for reasons for the delay also Mint.  I found nothing.

I had also read that the vaccinations had begun.  Yet, it seems very odd that if they have begun, why are we not finding news coverage of the process?

It shouldn't be that hard to find.  Yet, I see nothing on BFMTV, nothing in a general search (in French), nothing on Amelie..

So, where should we be looking?

[betise]

There are details of the roll-out of the vaccine here https://www.20minutes.fr/societe/2940043-20201226-coronavirus-doses-ages-objectifs-campagne-vaccination-chiffres

It seems that the first delivery of vaccines was made to Paris, and vaccinations have only started in two Ehpads there, but is being extended to twenty three more this week. My opinion is that they are waiting to make sure there are no immediate adverse effects.

I have just heard a doctor on BFMTV saying that the vaccinations in France to date are part of a pilot scheme.

[woolybanana]

I think that French radio said yesterday that the vaccine had yet to be delivered.

Alternatively this is what happens when the medical establishment gets too far from the reality on the ground. They need a sharp instrument in a painful place!

Just what happened in UK when the procurement arm of the NHS was unable to respond to the very urgent need for PPS kit, being utterly unable to get beyond established and very slow procedures.

[pomme]

There is an explanation here:

https://www.lci.fr/sante/video-covid-19-coronavirus-pandemie-epidemie-pourquoi-la-campagne-de-vaccination-contre-le-coronavirus-est-plus-lente-en-france-2174078.html

France is the only country informing each patient about the vaccine or to identify contraindications such as possible allergies and then getting written (or possibly oral) agreement.

There also seem to be logistics problems regarding vaccine distribution - because of the French health strucure and also a need to make sure the low general level of the population will to be vaccinated does not get worse due to problem reports.

Mayors in regions most affected are pushing for a faster rollout as their hospitals are already overwhelmed and know it could get even worse.

https://www.europe1.fr/societe/campagne-de-vaccination-cest-bien-que-lon-naille-pas-plus-vite-estime-alain-fischer-4015107

Spain is receiving 350,000 doses/week for the next two months and, as that is based on population, France should be receiving about 500,000 doses/week.

The UK vaccination figures are updated weekly. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

The UK will probably have given the same number of vaccinations by the end of December that France is planning for by the end of February.

There was a defence council chaired by Emmanuel Macron this morning. I think changin the strategy would have been on the agenda given how slow the vaccination timetable is for France compared to other countries and the likely impact on excess deaths due to inaction?

[woolybanana]

Well, my little bird gets her first jab this week.

Seems France has forgotten the ‘can do’ spirit!

[idun]

 just been talking to a friend in France and she is very hesitant about having the vaccine. She said that the Deputes did not seem to be queueing up to have it to show an example to the nation, and why not, IF it were safe.

And she reckons that quite a lot of our mutual friends are of the same avis.

[pomme]

Do they realise about 2.1 million in the USA, 650,000 in the UK and 40,000 in Germany have already received their first dose?

[Gardian]

It’s no surprise that there’s such reticence over ‘takeup’ - down here the rate for the flu vaccine is normally 20%, although I believe that it was a bit higher this year.

Personally, I don’t understand the reticence. I’m a bit doubtful as to whether every base has been covered over testing the vaccine for all side effects, but it probably won’t kill me, whereas the virus might. Also, every person who refuses immunisation helps to delay the moment when we can stop having to wear a bloody mask and can enjoy free movement again (to the UK for example).

For me & Mrs G, it’ll probably be February at best. Perfectly relaxed about that.

[Lori]

Me and other half are with you Gardian.  We feel like by the time we are offered the vaccine, so many others will have received it, we will know a lot more about any short term side effects.

As to long term, well, we will have to see.

[mint]

Hm......well, yes, I have actually come across all the excuses.  Everyone is seen beforehand, has to give written consent and is kept for 15 minutes after the jab, in case of adverse effects.  But, only FIFTY-FIVE persons injected on the one hand and, on the other, they talk about all the figures en hausse and that a third confinement cannot be ruled out?  So where is the the logic?

I have also heard here and there that some of the doses are 2.5 times more than the correct dose and that some carers in the US have had very bad responses to the vaccine.  How do you know who to believe?

I only know that Macron talks about transparency every 5 minutes and, yes, I do know he's been isolating with Brigitte in his fortress in the south but no apparent public address by Castex?  I am not of a suspicious nature but now I find myself growing more sceptical by the day.

Talked to my neighbour briefly (haven't seen her since well before Christmas) and she asked me if I would accept the vaccine.  For herself, she said "j'hesite" and now I think I may be hesitating too.

[NormanH]

https://www.france.tv/france-5/c-dans-l-air/2154911-emission-du-lundi-28-decembre-2020.html

[NormanH]

Only four in 10 people in France plan to get Covid vaccine

Just four in 10 people in France want to have a vaccination against Covid-19, a poll showed Tuesday, as concern also grows over the slow star to the country’s immunisation campaign.

According to the poll by Ipsos Global Advisor in partnership with the World Economic Forum, just 40 percent of French want to take the vaccine.

This puts it behind even other laggards like Russia on 43 percent and South Africa on 53 percent, let alone those countries where eagerness to take the vaccine is high such as China on 80 percent and Britain on 77 percent.

Fear of side effects is the reason most often given for not wanting the vaccine, according to the poll.

In the United States, where a mass vaccination campaign has now begun in earnest, 69 percent of people now want the vaccine, a rise on October.

France began its vaccination campaign on Sunday along with most of the rest of the EU, targeting residents in care homes first, Agence France-Presse reports.

 A resident of the retirement home Epahd “Magnolias”, receives a dose of the Pfizer/BioNtech Covid-19 vaccine, in Loos, northern France, on 28 December, 2020 as the country starts its national vaccination campaign to fight against the spread of coronavirus. Photograph: François Lo Presti/AFP/Getty Images

However fewer than 100 people were immunised in the first three days in France, a far slower pace than in neighbouring Germany, let alone in the US or UK.

Rebuffing criticism on social media, a health ministry official said: “We have not set out for a 100-metre sprint but a marathon.”

“The start is cautious but we will step it up and vaccinate on a very wide scale,” the official said, noting that the authorities face a “very strong scepticism on the part of the French population”.

The official said there was no problem with supplies, with 500,000 vaccine doses now set to arrive in France every week

[mint]

Well, Norman, I have come across all the points that you raised and I have listened to the first part of C dans L'air.  There was nothing new said, that the vaccine was here, that they had started in les EHPAD, that there were problems with storage and transport.  Surely, all of that could have been and, I thought, HAD been anticipated and that we were tout prêt to go ahead with the campagne de vaccination?

I also heard Véran's interview tonight.  No re-confinement at the moment but an extension of the couvre-feu in targeted areas, such as Paris, Grand-Est, Franche Comté, PACA. Couvre feu could start at 18.00 hrs from 2 January!!!  Great, just when the days are getting longer!

But, for us living in the West of France, we are, for the moment moins touché.  No great comfort really. 

Véran said he wanted to convince the refusers of the efficacy and advantages of being vaccinated.  Fine, but if we already have all these millions of doses sitting around in freezers, why not start vaccinating the people who do want the vaccine?  Still nothing makes sense to me.  I only want a credible EXPLANATION after all.

[Judith-aka-Judith]

Mint, I quite take your last point .. if there is reluctance, well give it to those who want it, and the health care staff .. and then when it is shown to  be OK, maybe they will convert a few more.  I'd be ready to have one .. but you know the French, the system (or whatever they call it, to late now) has to maintained .. if you can keep your  head etc comes to mind, but it seems they are not ..

[woolybanana]

Oxford vaccine approved today, roll out starts on 4 Jan.

[pomme]

woolybanana wrote: Oxford vaccine approved today, roll out starts on 4 Jan.

That is in the UK not in Europe

European Medicines Agency (EMA) have said the vaccine could not even be given a conditional marketing licence. Due to this lack of paperwork, the drug will not be able to be rolled out in Europe in January.

[betise]

I feel that many may be holding out for the French Sanofi vaccine, but that will not now be available until the end of next year.

[Catalpa]

Yes - I read about this (AstraZeneca-Oxford) vaccine approval earlier. It doesn't seem to be the EMA dragging its feet...

<< Belgian newspaper Het Nieuwsblad quoted the EMA deputy executive

director Noel Wathion as saying: “They have not even filed an

application with us yet. Not even enough to warrant a conditional

marketing licence.

“We need additional data about the quality of the vaccine. And, after that, the company has to formally apply.” >>

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/news/astrazeneca-oxford-vaccine-eu/

So it's not just the EMA being careful or wary - if a company doesn't apply for a product to be marketed in a country (or group of) - the country can't approve / licence / buy it for use. Disappointing for France (or not) as that may be.

I'm surprised France is so slow off the starting blocks with regard to getting the vaccine programme started... and then again I'm not surprised because in my limited experience with France and organisation of major events over the past years, France is sluggish and unwilling to learn from others' experiences.

The longer the

masses remain unvaccinated, the more people will continue to contract

it and it therefore follows that a percentage of those will suffer long

term consequences or die. And then there's how a slow, badly managed

roll-out will directly affect the resurrection of the economy... [:(]

[NormanH]

"Sur les trois premières journées de campagne, moins de cent personnes ont été vaccinées en France - l'un des plus faibles nombres au monde. En comparaison, l'Allemagne a déjà injecté plus de 40.000 doses. Des responsables politiques et des médecins, dont le célèbre généticien français Axel Kahn, regrettent un excès de prudence dans la campagne de vaccination en France, jugée trop lente par rapport aux autres pays européens. «Face à un très fort scepticisme dans la population française, nous avons fait le choix de prendre le temps nécessaire pour installer cette vaccination», se défend le ministère de la Santé."

source    https://www.lefigaro.fr/sciences/covid-19-le-royaume-uni-approuve-le-vaccin-astrazeneca-le-gouvernement-francais-critique-20201230

One problem that was well explained in the TV programme I posted a link to above is that in order to calm the "anti-vaxers" it is the Médecins Traitants who will give the vaccine and that causes logistical problems,  as the it comes in packaged in a way that means that a number of people have to be  brought together so as not to waste doses.

That is much easier to do in a  centre  that is dedicated to vaccinating than is a Doctor's surgery where a number of patients have to be called in and given consecutive appointments

..

[nomoss]

[quote user="NormanH"]

That is much easier to do in a  centre  that is dedicated to vaccinating than is a Doctor's surgery where a number of patients have to be called in and given consecutive appointments

[/quote]

Not much hope in our area then. I think that expecting MT's to handle it will be too much of a logistical problem for our 3 doctors, covering a large rural area, who already have almost all their appointments filled.

We have a cabinet of infirmières, but they only do vaccinations on home visits nowadays, and are also very busy.

P*ss-poor planning I'm afraid, so we can look forward to weeks more of restrictions.

[mint]

There is now growing dissent within France, not least among medical personnel, about the slowness of the rollout.

It's a poor excuse to say the scepticism of the French people is slowing down the process.  Just get started with vaccinating people and when the sceptics see that people are not dropping down dead after the jab and they themselves start getting ill or their family and friends start dying, they MIGHT get convinced?  Ggggrrrr........I am getting really irritated by so-called explanations that make no sense and doctors and nurses are becoming exhausted and the population getting fed up and some are beginning to flout all the rules[:'(] 

[Lori]

[quote user="mint"]

There is now growing dissent within France, not least among medical personnel, about the slowness of the rollout.

It's a poor excuse to say the scepticism of the French people is slowing down the process.  Just get started with vaccinating people and when the sceptics see that people are not dropping down dead after the jab and they themselves start getting ill or their family and friends start dying, they MIGHT get convinced?  Ggggrrrr........I am getting really irritated by so-called explanations that make no sense and doctors and nurses are becoming exhausted and the population getting fed up and some are beginning to flout all the rules[:'(] 

[/quote]

Agree 1000% percent.

[NormanH]

"I am getting really irritated by so-called explanations that make no sense"

I think the point in my last post, that it is being done by the MT, makes sense in terms of explaining why things are slow in being organised.

[Judith-aka-Judith]

[quote user="mint"]

There is now growing dissent within France, not least among medical personnel, about the slowness of the rollout.

It's a poor excuse to say the scepticism of the French people is slowing down the process.  Just get started with vaccinating people and when the sceptics see that people are not dropping down dead after the jab and they themselves start getting ill or their family and friends start dying, they MIGHT get convinced?  Ggggrrrr........I am getting really irritated by so-called explanations that make no sense and doctors and nurses are becoming exhausted and the population getting fed up and some are beginning to flout all the rules[:'(] 

[/quote]

Exactly what I said late last night Mint .. just get on with it .. what poor logicians the French are turning out to be, as well as pessimists par exellence.