My tenant

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

I have a tenant in my house, who is supposed to be my friend, but he is refusing all access to agents trying to sell my house.

I have a potential buyer coming up from Portugal mid October and I have left him countless messages requesting access to the house but he never responds.

What can I do? He is fast not being my friend. He says he is going to leave at the end of October (good riddance I say), but I have a very interested buyer in the middle of October and I'll be very annoyed if he costs me the sale.

Surely I have a right to have people inspect my house, especially as I am giving him plenty of notice?

I am very annoyed and hurt. The bastard.

[idun]

If he doesn't leave, then you'll have him there all winter. Make sure that you get him out properly.

http://www.anil.org/

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

That part really worries me.

I wonder who comes out with these daft laws. Must be legal to steal in France then?

Just goes to show you can't even trust friends. Never again.

But my question is is he legally obliged to make my house available if I have given him notice for an inspection?

[idun]

All I can tell you is that in my son's contract, there was a clause that said that he had to allow new locataires to be shown round after he had handed in his notice.

I personally would call ADIL on Monday, we have found them very helpful in the past.

 

ps is your place furnished or unfurnished, look under logement on the service-public.fr web site, you may found some things there.

[pachapapa]

Presumably a "bail meublée" with a termination date.

Or a gentleman's agreement perhaps.

[mint]

Don't wish to make you kick yourself even more but it's NEVER a good idea to let a house and try and sell at the same time.  I have never heard of tenants willingly letting potential purchasers view or, even if they do, they make sure the house is untidy, stinky and unattractive.

Mind you, it's probably untidy, stinky and the pits in any case.  As you see, my experience of the one and only time I had a tenant (back in the early 80s when there was a housing market much as now when you could't even get anyone to view) is not a happy one.

I'd never make the mistake of letting again.  My chateau stands empty.  At least, I then know I can sell it when I want to and a tenant isn't going to trash it because s/he is too feckless and idle to look after it.

All that was in the UK and it may be that in France, tenants are different.  I hope so for your sake, Richard.

[pachapapa]

An adequate "caution" should ostensibly keep a "locataire" respectful of the property.

During occupation of a gite in august the party leader drew a cheque for £ 1500 for the owner to guard during our stay, rather than complicate the issue by raising a cheque in €uros. Gite returned in working order with a quick 10 minute check of the swimming pool and electrics. In fact he seemed more concerned as to whether we had had a good time.

Paratge![:)] Civilized.

[mint]

But, Pacha, a gite renter is not a tenant.  Gites are only short-term.  Tenants, alas, you might have for quite a l-o-n-g time!

[Benjamin]

Rich

You've probably already thought of this but do you have a friend or even a mutual aquaintance who could go round and have a quiet word?

If you want any better advice you're going to have to come clean and say what the agreement between the two of you says. Apart from the obvious crowd if it is a "friend's" agreement, most people will be gentle with you.

[NormanH]

I have been trying to work out the legal position. I know that the tenant has to give reasonable access to the propriataire, but I am not sure that that covers other people such as agents of visitors.

However this is quoted from the contract I have before me, and they may differ.

In any case it isn't really a question of law. If he is a decent bloke he will honour his agreement, and if he isn't it will be difficult to make him do anything even if what he is doing is illegal.

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F1214.xhtml

says basically that the tenant

has to

1) pay the rent in full

2) use the premises as stipulated in the contract (see my point above)

3)do minor repairs and upkeep

4) have adequate insurance against fire and water damage

must not

1) make changes

2) prevent you from doing necessary work on the property

3) let it to somebody else.

I'm afraid as often it comes down to managing human nature.

[PaulT]

When we were looking for a property an agent took us to view a property - 'sorry, I cannot take you inside as there is a tenant'. From its location and outside it did not suit but what if it had?

A little bit of hindsight but Sweets is right, do not try to sell with a tenant installed. That saying friendship and business do not mix is very true.

Best of luck.

Paul

[pachapapa]

[;-)][quote user="NormanH"]I have been trying to work out the legal position. I know that the tenant has to give reasonable access to the propriataire, but I am not sure that that covers other people such as agents of visitors.
However this is quoted from the contract I have before me, and they may differ.
In any case it isn't really a question of law. If he is a decent bloke he will honour his agreement, and if he isn't it will be difficult to make him do anything even if what he is doing is illegal.
http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F1214.xhtml
says basically that the tenant
has to
1) pay the rent in full
2) use the premises as stipulated in the contract (see my point above)
3)do minor repairs and upkeep
4) have adequate insurance against fire and water damage

must not
1) make changes
2) prevent you from doing necessary work on the property
3) let it to somebody else.

I'm afraid as often it comes down to managing human nature.

[/quote]

Check "jouissance" on google...sorry that gives preference to clitoral vibrators...up the ante to include proprieté louée or something similar.

On dit, en droit, que le contrat de location transfère la jouissance dudit bien au locataire.

So the portugoose has got the square root of zero chance!

[Rabbie]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

Don't wish to make you kick yourself even more but it's NEVER a good idea to let a house and try and sell at the same time.  I have never heard of tenants willingly letting potential purchasers view or, even if they do, they make sure the house is untidy, stinky and unattractive.

Mind you, it's probably untidy, stinky and the pits in any case.  As you see, my experience of the one and only time I had a tenant (back in the early 80s when there was a housing market much as now when you could't even get anyone to view) is not a happy one.

I'd never make the mistake of letting again.  My chateau stands empty.  At least, I then know I can sell it when I want to and a tenant isn't going to trash it because s/he is too feckless and idle to look after it.

All that was in the UK and it may be that in France, tenants are different.  I hope so for your sake, Richard.

[/quote]Nearly twenty years ago we were living in a rented house that was put on the market while we were in residence. This was part of the agreement between us and the owners. I can assure you that we kept the house clean and  tidy even on days when the property was being viewed. I would not people to think that we lived in a slum. So please do not judge everyone on the strength of your one bad experience. There are good tenants and bad tenants.

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

Thanks for the replies. Guess I'm just going to have to wait until he vacates at the end of October then.

Lesson learnt.

[idun]

But how do you know he will? I think that that could be a problem,IF he is in on Nov 1st then you'll have him there all winter.

If you can, call the ADIL for your dept and discuss the lot with them.

[mint]

[quote user="Rabbie"]Nearly twenty years ago we were living in a rented house that was put on the market while we were in residence. This was part of the agreement between us and the owners. I can assure you that we kept the house clean and  tidy even on days when the property was being viewed. I would not people to think that we lived in a slum. So please do not judge everyone on the strength of your one bad experience. There are good tenants and bad tenants.[/quote]

Rabbie, of course, there are good and bad, like in every other sphere of life.  And if I have implied that all tenants are irresponsible then, clearly, I was talking rubbish!

I did emphasise that it was my own dreadful experience that had coloured my views.

It IS true to say, however, that for every tenant I hear of who does the decorating, undertake small repairs, keep the garden nice, etc, I hear of many tens of tenants that leave the place in a dreadful mess.  This is from clients of the firm (property) that I worked for for several years.

It's either the rent hadn't been paid, or contents had been taken, etc etc.

Now I am a fierce advocate of social housing for those who can't afford to buy but even I have to admit that after that old dragon, Thatcher, allowed people to buy their council houses, even the really grotty housing estates began to look smart with fresh paint and lawns cut.

I do think that if people have a stake in the property in which they live, they tend to take better care of it.  OK, you might say I am generalising yet again but I speak as I find, as the saying goes.....

 

[LEO]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="Rabbie"]Nearly twenty years ago we were living in a rented house that was put on the market while we were in residence. This was part of the agreement between us and the owners. I can assure you that we kept the house clean and  tidy even on days when the property was being viewed. I would not people to think that we lived in a slum. So please do not judge everyone on the strength of your one bad experience. There are good tenants and bad tenants.[/quote]

Rabbie, of course, there are good and bad, like in every other sphere of life.  And if I have implied that all tenants are irresponsible then, clearly, I was talking rubbish!

I did emphasise that it was my own dreadful experience that had coloured my views.

It IS true to say, however, that for every tenant I hear of who does the decorating, undertake small repairs, keep the garden nice, etc, I hear of many tens of tenants that leave the place in a dreadful mess.  This is from clients of the firm (property) that I worked for for several years.

It's either the rent hadn't been paid, or contents had been taken, etc etc.

Now I am a fierce advocate of social housing for those who can't afford to buy but even I have to admit that after that old dragon, Thatcher, allowed people to buy their council houses, even the really grotty housing estates began to look smart with fresh paint and lawns cut.

I do think that if people have a stake in the property in which they live, they tend to take better care of it.  OK, you might say I am generalising yet again but I speak as I find, as the saying goes.....

 

[/quote]

sweet 17 wrote;

"I do think that if people have a stake in the property in which they live, they tend to take better care of it."

absolutely correct!

"I hear of many tenants that leave the place in a dreadful

mess.  "

another accurate statement!

[AnOther]

[quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]That part really worries me.

I wonder who comes out with these daft laws.[/quote]

It's rooted in good old socialist dogma, if you can afford a second property to rent out then the tenent takes precedence as he obviously needs the roof over his head whilst you equally obviously don't !

My OH used to work for a letting agency in UK and that was all we needed to say an absolute NO to renting our place in the UK when we moved so we sold it.

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

Sure, he needs a roof over his head, but he also needs to be able to pay for it, otherwise he is stealing.

I need food, so maybe I can go into Intermarche and take some without paying then?

That's where that law falls down.

[Frecossais]

I truly hope, Sire that all your misgivings turn out to be unfounded, and that your house will once again be vacant by the end of October. Could a neighbour be trusted to keep the keys and let potential buyers in? Or just let the estate agent have a set?

Good luck.

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

I've tried both those suggestions with him and he just ignores my emails.

[PaulT]

Im know it will be a great expense and inconvenience but would a personal visit help?

[Gardener]

Or have you got any mutual friends that could put a bit of pressure on him? I think he has accepted the loss of your friendship but might he listen to others.

I will be amazed if this g*t actually leaves in October, why would you believe anything he says now?

[Mr Ice-ni]

[quote user="Mr Coeur de Lion"]

Sure, he needs a roof over his head, but he also needs to be able to pay for it, otherwise he is stealing........ That's where that law falls down.

[/quote]

He probably can afford to pay it, but chooses not to.

As for his leaving in October, you seem very confident but if I were living rent free I would stay put for as long as poss particularly if my landlord lives 3000+ miles away. Be prepared!!

Anyone who would do this to a friend has neither morals nor ethics so there is no point in appealing to his better nature. The law won't help much either especially when you need instant assistance (particularly as I suspect that there is no written agreement covering the let). I could never publicly recommend hiring Ron and Ron with their baseball bats however appealing this might seem but I could see the attraction.

Sorry for your predicament.

John

[Judie]

I take it that the contact person on your house sale website is not the person you are having so much difficulty with?