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Satellite TV - Astra2 and HotBird conundrum


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I have a two-headed satellite receiver and, more by luck than judgement have set up a strong signal on Astra 2 where most of the English language channels are (BBC1,2,3,4, News24, Sky news, CNN, ITV1,2).

However I'm keen to get BBC World as well, which according to my book here is on HotBird statellite. Now I should be able to do that because, as I say, my satellite receiver can get signals from two satellites at once.

But how does that work? If you move the dish to point at one satellite don't you have to move it again to pick up the other one, and if so, surely you lose the connection to the first one? How can it point at two places at the same time?

My theory is that because I have a French system (ELAP 80cm dish and ThallisV recepteur - €79.99 at your nearest LeClerc folks)  the statellite receivers (LNBs) are set at such angles to pick up Astra 1 (not to be confused with Astra 2) and Hotnbird 1,2,3 at the same time. It can only one of these two scenarios. If it is the second I wont be able to get Hotbird because, as I say, mine is now pointing at Astra 2 which is in a totally different place in the sky.

Can anyone help please?!!!

Perplexed non-geek (honest!)

 

 

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Hi

First of all I've never tried this... but it might be possible to get both satellites on the same dish with out moving it, by mounting a second LNB, offset from the other one. I would look at some of the satellite shops to see if such an arrangement is available. The two satellites are very close bearing wise, but it will be a compromise in not having too big a dish (narrow beam width) and not going too small (lower gain)

Steve

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It's fairly easy to set up one dish to get both Hotbird 13e and Astra 19e using a 'monobloc' LNB as they are only 6 degrees apart - I do it here - but you would need a specialist shop to provide the kit to get 28e and 19e from one dish - purely because of the difference in their locations in the sky. You see alot of French households with two dishes - one set to either 19e or 13e and the other on 5w for the same reason.

It depends on your profficiency, of course, but it's likely that you'll need some expert advice - probably easier to put up a second dish and keep it simple. Unless someone on here has done it and knows better!!

Tim

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Tim

Thanks for this info.  I actually do have a monobloc preprogrammed for Hotbird 13e and Astra 19e but I just moved it round to point at Astra 28e. Just to make sure I understand, what you are saying is that because one LNB is pointing at 28e and the other LNB is prefixed 6 degrees apart it must be pointing at either 34e or 22e depending on which LNB is currently pointing at Astra 28e? (I dont know which one!). All this means of course that I wont be able to get BBC World (on Hotbird) without another satellite dish and cable but there you go. Do you not bother with English channels on Astra 28e?

By the way I dont seem to have picked up four channels which were supposed to be on Astra 28e namely ITV3, ITV4, CBBC and Ceebies even though the list of channels has them on. Any idea why?

Mick

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Yes those monoblocs are designed (and preset up) for a separation of 6 deg.    So as you say your "other" LNB is looking at 34 or 22 deg E.

I stick to the multidish approach (I have four here in France and six in the UK) but then I have a very accommodating OH.

If your non-Sky box shows BBC 3 and BBC 4 in the list,  then that's where CBeebies and CBBC are as well.   They share the same stream,  and depending on what time of day you do a scan you'll get different channel names.   LIkewise with ITV 4 (though for the life of me I'll have to go and look up what it shares with).

Puzzled about ITV 3 though,  except to the extent that I had a similar query from a friend and it turned out that her box did not have the relevant transponder in its master-list of freqs.   You may need to get into one of the more esoteric editing menus and if necessary add the details of said freqency before doing a scan.   It's often a menu called edit/add transponders.   You'll find the details at lyng thing.   On some boxes you don't have to do the edit transponder procedure,  they let you scan a frequency direct (which is a lot simpler).

Unless you have a biggish dish the separation between Hotbird and Astra 2 is getting a bit high,  the efficiency falls away as you move from the focal point of the reflector.   You can get a nice dish called a Visiosat Bisat G3 which does Astra 2 and 1 and Hotbird all in one,  for 129€  from www.ausene.fr.  I have a feeling the LNB's are extra though not sure.

Laters;   no seems it includes the LNB's.  Very neat.   I might get one, then I could ditch four dishes in the UK.

http://www.ausene.net/product_info.php?products_id=43

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Martin

That looks very interesting to me also.

Having looked at the schematic it shows a digital sattelite receiver and/or a second "conditional access" one, do you think that this means that I could use a digital receiver to get the european channels and loop through to a sky box for the UK channels? I prefer the sky programme guide and to be able to get CH5 etc.

Would this setup require more than one coax from the LNB's? As I only have the one.

Another restriction that I have is that my recently bought French LCD TV only has one scart socket.

Any advice suggestions would be welcome, I dont wnat to buy the thing only to find that I cannot use it due to my caling restrictions or that I have to keep changing scart leads.

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A couple of years ago we bought a motorised dish complete with decoder for 99 euros in Atac.  We are able to watch Astra 1 and 2, Hotbird and Atlantic B3 just with a press of a button on the remote control.  You can also set it up to receive other satellites if you want.  Really handy.  It's worth looking round the bigger supermarkets for any special offers.

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Hi Folks

A motorised dish is the way to go, but please do not skimp on the motor, you will be able to receive many channels and many that you will not want from at least 15 to 20 satellites but your dish will need to be set up properly, my dish is a 80cm once I move permanently to France I will be using a 1 mtr dish, this will not work on a sly box, you will need a numeric box (Digital Box)

If you want any more info just ask

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The problem with motorised and Sky boxes is that you do need to remember to park the dish back at 28 deg E overnight or - eventually - you will probably get behind with software updates.

Having said that,  J.R.'s query is difficult to solve with one cable,  two receivers,  and two sat positions.   There is a system called Diseq which allows one receiver to swtich between more than one LNB,  using only one cable.   However,  I tried it (admittedly on very long cable runs) and it was useless - it did the switching but for some reason about half the channels on each LNB went AWOL,  no rhyme or reason as to which ones (ie it wasn't a pol switching prob).   I tried setting one up at a friend and had exactly the same problem (on a shorter cable run) so gave up.

In addition,  a Sky box has to be the "further away" box when you loop through (ie daisychain) as it doesn't itself have a second sat socket to continue the loop through on to another box.   Loopthrough works on the basis that the "furtherst away from the dish" box takes control of the signalling (of polarisation and lo/hi band 22 kHz) at the expense of the others.   So if the farthest box requests hi band vertical then the other box(es) will only be able to pick up hi band vertical signals.   Other combinations simply give a blank screen on the "nearer" box..

Now if you loop two TPS boxes together this works (at least it did) because the TPS channels were all lo band V if I remember correctly,  so there was no conflict.   But this wouldn't necessarily be the case with a Sky box and a second box watching different channels on the same sat.

In any case,  I don't think you can use loop through and Diseq together,  or if you can I'm not sure how well it would work.   The Sky box doesn't support Diseq anyway,  although that MIGHT not matter if it was switched off to allow the nearer box to switch between sats.  I'm really not sure.

So - in answer - either you'll need to run a second cable out,  or go motorised and be prepared to swap the cable between two boxes.

Timco - please add to this if you are able,  it's quite a complex set up and I may have missed the obvious.

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Thank you Martin!!  You've obviously played around with disq alot more than I have, although I do use it with my ancient Humax FTA box on Hotbird and Astra 19e and it seems to work ok. I'm a great believer in keeping things simple - it's about all I can cope with - but I did set up my own motorised dish whilst still living in England and it did give me a lot of fun.

I made a point, though, of keeping this totally separate from my Sky installation for all the reasons you've very well explained Martin. Sky boxes only like 28e.

The 'simple' system I use here, that gets me all the UK stuff and Hotbird and Astra 19e simply (again) uses two dishes. The astra 28e has a twin lnb to feed two boxes in different parts of the house - useful to watch one channel whilst recording another - the second dish with monbloc lnb gets the other two sats fed into the old Humax.

I still have the motorised system down in the garage, and perhaps one day I will find the time to to take down the monbloc and replace it with the 80cm motor jobby - but still keeping the UK one separate.

There are alot of options to consider, the issue is to find the one that suits your circumstances.

Tim

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Thanks for your responses.

I too prefer the simple approach although I always seem to make things more difficult than they need be!

As I am planning to switch to Free.fr so that should take care of the French channels (and give me a lot more than I have currently), if I am still missing UK tv then I can dig out the old skybox and run it from the single cable from the dish.

Which leads me to the subject of being daft enough to have bought probably the only new LCD TV available with only one scart socket. There is what looks like a seperate computer input socket and of course the ariel input. Am I right in assuming that the television channels from the Free.fr piece of kit will need to go through the scart socket which I would otherwise use for the skybox?

How does one overcome this problem and also for other bits of kit like DVD players? Do they all loop through and you have to make sure that only one is switched on?

As you can tell it is not one of my priorities to be up to date with the latest gadgets, I have never even owned a CD player except the one fitted as standard in the car, so these new fangled things are somewhat difficult for me to fathom out[:)]

 

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Sadly, JR, this can be a pig.  You need a SCART switcher box - which has multiple inputs - cheap and cheerful, I think you could pick one up at FNAC for a few euros - I'll try to find a link for you on their site.  I have one with a remote which are more expensive but save you the long walk from you telly to the switcher box!  You can then bung all your bits of kit into the front of that - although you'll only be able to use one at once.  If you have a recorder then it gets more complicated!! (You just knew it, non?)  If I tell you that my TV has 4 SCART inputs and that's still not enough....[:-))]
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Crikey

25 is not a few euros to me[:)]

Seriously it didnt look like the remote controlled one, am I mistaken?

I am sure that I have seen basic scart switchboxes quite cheap at some of my old suppliers, CPC etc so will check there, I dont want to have to go to the box each time but also dont want yet another remote[:D]

Life was simple with the old TV because the sky remote could operate it, not the new one though although perhaps if I bought a newer remote.

At this rate I will have remotes for freebox (I guess) sky box, television and scart switcher, oh and a DVD player if I get one!

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No, JR, it's not a remote one.  I'm certain you'd get one more cheaply elsewhere but now at least you know what you're looking for.  I think Maplins in the UK sell 'em for about a fiver.

Here's the "all the bells and whistles" version

http://www.play.com/Electronics/Electronics/4-/632819/Vivanco-SBX99SE-5-W-Scart-Switcher-Distribution-Amp-Auto-Or-Manual-+-Remote-Control/Product.html

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Martin

Have you been at the bottle again?  [:D]

Your first line:

The problem with motorised and Sky boxes is that you do need to remember to park the dish back at 28 deg E overnight or - eventually - you will probably get behind with software updates.

My last line:

this will not work on a sly box, you will need a numeric box (Digital Box)

 

Martin I would never put a motorised dish on a sly box .................a hammer well that's a different matter!!!!!!!

Also my reply was aimed at the original poster and he has a standard digital (numeric) stb which it would work on.

Too many Technomates I think that is the problem.......I've only got two

 

Love to you all

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In answer to Fridgeman's question - YES!   What else is there to do when the weather bascules between 14 deg and raining,  32 deg and so humid our house is running with condensation,  and back to 20 deg today and a thunderstorm.   I'm posting between the outages caused by having to hit the off button on our disjoncteur.

If only a second cable could be run (returning to the topic) it would make life a lot easier....

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