Moving from Germany to France

[Kiwistevie]

Hallo all, I am a New Zealander who has lived in Germany for the last 11 years . I have permanant residency here and also in the UK.

My German born wife and I are considering moving to the South of France.What do we need inthe way of visas , residency etc.

Many Thanks Steve

[Bob T]

Your wife will not need a visa as she is European. Not sure about your situation though.

[andyh4]

I suspect you will have to apply for residency in France.  As stated your wife needs nothing.  You could always consider taking German nationality since you now fulfill the residency requirement - assuming your German is up to it.  Then you would not need to do anything either except pack up and move. 

[Clarkkent]

Germany does not permit multiple nationality. If you acquire German citizenship you will be expected to renounce your NZ citizenship.

Could you have any claim to British nationality?

[NormanH]

You would be mad to move from the vastly superior Germany to France which is the pits of Europe..

[andyh4]

Each to his own Norman, each to his own. Personally I'm with the OP.

<------------------------------

[Bob T]

[quote user="Clarkkent"]Germany does not permit multiple nationality. If you acquire German citizenship you will be expected to renounce your NZ citizenship.

Could you have any claim to British nationality?[/quote]

That must be a new thing! My mother has dual German/British nationality.

[Hereford]

  Our daughter will soon have dual British/German nationality (done so that she can vote and to simplify life with a German husband and children). Her son aged 7 and her daughter aged 3already have dual nationality. She lives in Germany.

One possible difference may be that she was european, does being a New Zealander make it different?

[Clarkkent]

The following is taken from Wikipedia:

Naturalisation as a German citizen

German citizenship may be acquired by naturalisation by those with permanent residence who have lived in Germany for 8 years. Additional requirements include an adequate command of the German language and an ability to be self-supporting without recourse to welfare.

Applicants for naturalisation are normally expected to prove they have renounced their existing nationality, or will lose this automatically upon naturalisation. An exception applies to those unable to give up their nationality easily (such as refugees). A further exception applies to citizens of European Union member states that do not require Germans to renounce citizenship upon naturalisation in that country.

Exceptions to the normal residence requirements include:

• A spouse of a German citizen may be naturalised after 3 years residence in Germany. The marriage must have persisted for at least 2 years.

• persons who have completed an integration course may have the residence requirement reduced to 7 years

• refugees and stateless persons may be able to apply after 6 years residence

• former German citizens

.

Loss of German citizenship

German citizenship is automatically lost when a German citizen voluntarily acquires the citizenship of another country. To this there are two exceptions:

1. When the German citizen acquires a nationality from within the European Union, Switzerland, or another country with which Germany has a corresponding treaty.

2. When permission to obtain a foreign citizenship has been applied for and granted in advance of foreign naturalisation. The relevant form is called a Beibehaltungsgenehmigung Details (in German) (archived from the original on 2007-09-09)

Other cases where German citizenship can be lost include:

• Persons acquiring German citizenship on the basis of birth in Germany (without a German parent) lose German citizenship automatically at age 23 if they have not successfully applied to retain German citizenship. If it is desired to maintain a foreign citizenship, application must be made by age 21.

• A German citizen who voluntarily serves in a foreign army (over and above compulsory military service) from 1 January 2000 may lose German citizenship unless permission is obtained from the German government.

• A German child adopted by foreign parents, where the child automatically acquires the nationality of the adoptive parents under the law of the adoptive parents' country. (For example, a German child adopted by Americans prior to February 27, 2001 [the effective date of the Child Citizenship Act of 2000] would not have automatically lost his/her German citizenship, because the child did not automatically acquire United States citizenship by virtue of having been adopted by U.S. citizens.) An exception applies where legal ties to the German parent are maintained.

It is possible, therefore, for UK or French citizens to acquire German nationality in addition to their existing nationality, but not for New Zealand citizens ...

[Kiwistevie]

Thank you all for your comments.I do not intend to give up my NZ citizenship.I did however find this interesting:

The right of a person to live and work in France depends on their citizenship

as follows:

1. Non-European Union Citizens: A Carte de Séjour, also known as a Titre
   de Séjour, is a residence permit required by French law for any
   non-European Union citizen staying in France for a period longer than
   1. three months, if a vistor has a short stay visa (visa court séjour) or
   2. six months, if a visitor has a long-stay visa (visa de long séjour)

2. European Union (EU) and European Economic Area (EEA) Citizens: All EU
   citizens from the original accession countries, and EEA citizens and their family members have the right to live and work in
   France and do not require a work or residence permit.
   Note: The non-EU/EEA spouse and dependent family members of an EU
   citizen in France are entitled to the
   same rights as an EU citizen to live in France, however within two months of arrival
   in the country they must apply for a residence permit (Carte de Séjour)
   and will not be entitled to all rights afforded EU/EEA citizens in France. "Family
   members" are parents, and children under 21 years of both the EU citizen or
   their non-EU spouse.
3. More under    http://france.angloinfo.com/countries/france/residency.asp

4. Cheers steve

[Kiwistevie]

As to all rules there are exceptions. I have just found out that I can only renounce my NZ citizenship if I have another citizenship.

German law states that I can hold my NZ citizenship if it is difficult or am unable to renounce it.

So maybe this is possible.

Never the less your comments would be appreciated.

cheers steve

[Aly]

German and French citizens have new special rules governing the obtaining of each others citizenship. (Part of the closer integration policy between the two states.) You can now keep your German as well as your newly acquired French citizenship. Its also been made alot simpler for Germans to acquire French nationality and vice versa.

My advise is enquire at the German embassy:     www.paris.diplo.de/

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

But at least you wouldn't have to change all your plugs over on your appliances.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Richard"]But at least you wouldn't have to change all your plugs over on your appliances.

[/quote]Not all but possibly some. Many German 3 pin plugs use a different earthing arrangement to the French ones.

[img]http://www.bikudo.com/photo_stock/421787.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.o-digital.com/uploads/2226/2234-1/G_S_Socket_MS153Z13YX2_16_822.jpg[/img]

[AnOther]

[quote user="andyh4"]Each to his own Norman, each to his own. Personally I'm with the OP.[/quote]Personally, unencumbered by the need to work or family ties, NZ (South Island) would be our 1st choice for relocation, France was second [blink]

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="Richard"]But at least you wouldn't have to change all your plugs over on your appliances.

[/quote]Not all but possibly some. Many German 3 pin plugs use a different earthing arrangement to the French ones.

[/quote]

I dunno, there's always quelque chose to make life awkward....

[andyh4]

[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="Richard"]But at least you wouldn't have to change all your plugs over on your appliances.
[/quote]Not all but possibly some. Many German 3 pin plugs use a different earthing arrangement to the French ones.
[/quote]

 

As someone who has done the Germany to France move, you will have to change all plugs except from the newest appliances.  If you have already changed plugs on the move to Germany, these are all but guaranteed to be incompatible.

[Gyro]

Don't worry about that. just cut off the 3rd pin, or drill an extra hole in the plug, Lol

[Deby]

Beaureaucratic nightmare! I had so many problems importing a German registered car into France - went on for months!

Dont forget to test drive France before you move from Germany - there will be many plus's and minus's.

The thing that struck me the most - is that everyone follows the rules in Germany and there is always a little dedidicated person (amt) to apply them but importantly resolve the issue/problem. In France its totally different, lots of rules to be applied willy nilly and never resolved- just chaos!

Oh and get used to parking by hitting your neighbours bumper!!! :-)

[tinabee]

[quote user="Deby"]Beaureaucratic nightmare! I had so many problems importing a German registered car into France - went on for months! Dont forget to test drive France before you move from Germany - there will be many plus's and minus's. The thing that struck me the most - is that everyone follows the rules in Germany and there is always a little dedidicated person (amt) to apply them but importantly resolve the issue/problem. In France its totally different, lots of rules to be applied willy nilly and never resolved- just chaos! Oh and get used to parking by hitting your neighbours bumper!!! :-)[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OaqF-JT4mQ   [:)]

[BritinBretagne]

[quote user="NormanH"]You would be mad to move from the vastly superior Germany to France which is the pits of Europe..

[/quote]

As the others say, each to their own. I spent most of my working life in Germany and love the place. In my case, once I knew that I would be able to give up my job and explore a different lifestyle I never once thought about staying in Germany and couldn't wait to move to France. I've never regretted that decision but enjoy my trips back east.

[alittlebitfrench]

You have just replied to thread that is 7 years old BinB.

Question: Do you live en Bretagne or the Limousin ?

You remind me of someone on another forum/forums. Especially with your Germany connection.

[BritinBretagne]

I live in Brittany but every time it gets wet and windy (like today) I think about moving south. The Limousin is one of the places I could afford a house as my home here isn't worth much. I know lots of people who now live in France who have also lived in Germany, it's quite common. In fact I met a couple today in Lidl who lived in the same part of Germany as me. I'm only in one other forum and that seems to be dominiated by non British English speaking members.

[alittlebitfrench]

I have noticed that a lot of British/American expats who have lived/worked in Germany end up living in France.

Why is that then ? What is wrong with retiring in Germany ? Germany is the centre of Europe...well they think it is.

The other forum...is it all green looking as ET would say. LOL

There was a big debate about cheap housing and the Limousin on such a forum but it got closed. Nothing to do with me guv.

[andyh4]

Germany is OK; Good standard of living, social systems that work (but like everywhere else run at a deficit), people that are polite (if a bit stiff at time - lot like the British), lower cost of living.

But house prices and environment is what does it.

1900€/month rent for a house with less floor space than my house in France which I could afford to buy. [Germany has a system of 40 year mortgages and the ability to inherit both the property and the ongoing mortgage. It also has stagnated house prices - perhaps even drifting down in price by w few percentage points a year in many places.] The land was a typical pocket handkerchief and the property was situated on a relatively busy crossroads - not good for the cats. We now have around 1/2 acre which suits us and the cats just fine.

In 12 years we had three relatively serious car accidents outside of the house, two of which involved parts of the fence (ours and our neighbours - 1 each) being demolished. Here we don't have a road passing at all.

We were broken into while away in Germany (not so uncommon unfortunately) but have not had a problem in France. In fact - touch wood - while we have owned in France, the village seems to have suffered just 2 serious thefts - one a 20 year old small Renault car and the other a small shed full of firewood.

In fairness we had a bigger and much more international circle of friends in Germany, but we did not have the peace and tranquillity of rural France.

Our landlady was rather hoping that we would buy the house when we decided to leave Germany but even at a special price it would have cost more than twice our house in France - albeit that we have done and paid quite a bit to/for the French house to make it what we want and need.