HD TV reception

[David_Janet]

I have just ordered a new HD TV (Sony KDL-46W 4710), which, because we live in the shadow of the Black mountain and therefore cannot use TNT, is being supplied with a Sagem HD satellite receiver (I don't know the model, but it's 299Euro)

We want to be able to receive SD and HD french and english TV.

We currently have 2 paraboles - one a Sky oval minidish  driving a Pace Skybox, and an 80cm dish receiving french analogue TV.

We will move the  Skybox + TV to another room, and put the new TV in its place in the salon.

My (extremely naive) question is: does the new tv and digibox use the same dish for both english and french tv? (i.e.  are they looking at the same satellite?)

If not, and I will need 2 separate dishes, can I simply use the one Sagem digibox by swapping the aerial leads, or am I going to need 2 HD digiboxes?)

Sorry about the involved question - I have tried researching on this (and other forums) and googling, but got completely bogged down in technicalities, which, quite frankly, I don't understand [8-)]

I'd be very grateful if anyone can:

a. understand what I'm trying to achieve, and

b. Explain what is needed in terms a technographical retard (me...[:$]) can understand

Thank you

David

[Tim]

Quick simple reply - TV from the UK and TV from France come from satellites at different positions. So, again the simplest is to have a dish for each. There are more tricky ways of getting one dish to do both, but I believe in keeping things simple - it suits me. It therefore follows - I have two dishes.[8-)]

I haven't gone down the HD route yet and cannot therefore speak from experience. Perhaps someone else on here can asist you with that one.

Regards - Tim

[Martin963]

I second what Tim has written.

As to the HD....

My guess is that your supplier is providing a Sagemn "TNTparSat" HD box.   TNTparSat is designed specifically for people like you who have - either now or in the future - no conventional TNT reception.

TNTparSat is provided by Canalsat/Canal + (at the behest of the government) and requires a specific decoder and card,  which you will get for your €299  (the supermarket price is €229 so the supplier is making a nice little mark up there).  There are no ongoing charges for the card once you've paid up front,   and it'll last for at least four years before possibly requiring a replacement.

I would guess that the supplier will turn your AB3 5 deg W dish (which supplies your French analogue sat channels) round to 19 deg E (Astra 1) from which the TNTparSat channels are transmitted.    Or you may find they charge you for a new dish either because they can't be bothered to fiddle with the old one or perhaps because it's seized up and can't be adjusted.    Or you may want to keep it anyway using its current analgoue box - it's likely that this transmission will last right to the final day of analogue broadcasting in France,  ie end Nov 2011.

The Sagem box you will find is deliberately "crippled" and I would be amazed if you got it to even recognise Astra 2.   I have two SD Sagem TNTparSat boxes here in Devon (sssshh.......  don't tell anyone!) and whilst they do the job that Canalsat designed them for very well,   that's all they do.   Deliberately,   and in contravention of EU legislation,  but that's another story.

In addition,    you won't have (AFAIK) much French HD before Christmas,  as the TNTparSat HD doesn't start until Feb 2009,   even though the boxes have been on sale for over a year.   They will work I hasten to add in standard definition for now,  and you may find that ARTE comes through in HD right now.

So,   I'd wait until it's all installed.    I would then "try" the Sagem on your Astra 2 dish and see if it'll tune in say the BBC HD channel,   but my guess is it won't.  If it won't then you'll have to either think up a way of persuading Sky that you're in Britain and want HD,  or buy a "freesat" (or similar FTA) HD box and content yourself with the free to air British offerings,  whilst keeping your Sky box for anything else.

I am conjecturing a bit here as to what your supplier has in mind,   but that's my guess.

This Black Mountain,  is that the Pic de Nore,  which has a TNT transmitter right on the top (painted bright red and white,  you can't miss it).   If so,  is your line of sight to the top screened by something....?

[Martin963]

Out of interest I've just got one of my Sagem TNTparSat boxes to do a scan on Astra 2 and it found................... zilch.

[Pierre ZFP]

Lots of info HERE as to what channels are available and what's coming up including a raft of HD channels.  I think I'll see about getting a Freesat box in the New Year....maybe

No mention of Astra 1M yet but since its only just been launched I suppose they'll be testing it for a while yet.

[Martin963]

Be a bit careful Pierre,  my freesat box (a Grundig) won't tune in either Arte HD or the Astra promo on Astra 1.    I daresay the Humax does,   but the way things are going (and the way Astra would like them to go) is for increasing demarcation so that you "only watch what you're supposed to watch" -  as witness the Sagem boxes we're talking about above.

After all ,  Canalsat have a very poor record over they years on allowing all the other FTA Astra channels through onto their boxes (they allow some),   and of course Sky only allow through stuff to digiboxes that's on "their" EPG,   unless you're prepared to do a lot of fiddling.

A lot of the corporate policies are - as I said earlier - in direct conflict with EU law.    And they stink as well.

Astra 1M won't make a lot of difference,   it's additional back up and taking over from the more aged craft up there.    There won't be any additional frequencies until the analogue channels start to close.

[David_Janet]

Thanks a lot everyone. Very informative. Corporate politics.... Bah, humbug... Whatever happened to 'fit for purpose' and 'plug and play'  .....[:@]

I'll do as you suggest Martin, and see what happens after the dish(es) have been installed (next tuesday) and tv arrival (next Friday). If you don't mind, I may need to come back for more advice. Thanks.

Incidentally, I maligned the supplier - the price of the Sagem box is €229, not $299 as I said. Also, I should have said 'the Black mountains' not the Black mountain. We live at the very western end, right at the conjunction of the Tarn, Aude and the Haute Garronne, a very hit and miss area for TNT reception, apparently. (Perish the suggestion that 'they' tell people that,  simply as a means of selling more expensive kit) You old cynic, David......

Cheers.

[Pierre ZFP]

Why is the box to receive TNT via Sat for France so expensive?  A similar box for the German system (which is very similar but more channels) with a decoder included is only a few euros more than a 'standard' Sat box.  ie around 45 euros.  A TNT Sat box starts at around €130 !!

[Martin963]

Indeed.    But what does the German box get in terms of encrypted channels?    I had rather assumed it was just an FTA box (a bit like a freesat box with EPG in other words) as almost all the non-Premiere channels are free to air.     Astra were hoping to persuade the Germans to encrypt a lot of their currently FTA stuff but the Germans - I'm delighted to say - told them where they could put their encryption.   This was about 18 months ago from what I remember - it had a special name,  now thankfully forgotten!

The French system is encrypted and €130 -  whilst irritating - is taking into account a Viaccess slot and provision of a card with associated costs.

I'm not defending Canalsat,  but given that the channels aren't FTA it doesn't seem *that* excessive.....?

Or have I got the German situation wrong?

[Pierre ZFP]

I think the German satellite TV has come on a bit recently.  Bear in mind most of what I've seen advertised is from walking around the electrical 'Shiney Shops' but from what I can gather you can get  films, series, sport and children’s programmes that are financed through advertising and sponsorship and are unencrypted via Astra (19.2° East), on the cable networks of Kabel BW.  This forms part of the IPTV package T-Home Entertain operated by Deutsche Telekom which also has many Kabel BW encrypted channels, a bit like Canal+ really but the boxes are far cheaper.

If anyone is interested, here's a link to what is available in German

http://www.satellite-tv-guides.com/germany.html

[flittle]

It's worth noting that Eric Besson, 'Le Secretaire d'Etat à l'Economie numérique' has announced his plan 'France Numérique 2012'.  This plan contains 154 measures to make it possible for all residents to receive TNT.  The most interesting is that from the second half of 2009, the 18 TNT channels will be available from the AB3 satellite,  there is no mention of a special receiver. The comment is that anyone using AB3 for analogue reception can just buy a digital(numérique) receiver and receive for free this new offer of 'TNT par satellite', not to be confused with TNTSAT  the offer of Canal satellite. I agree that the TNT offer from Canal is a bit of a con requiring a special receiver but I have seen TNTSAT receivers, in France, for a lot less than 299.  It might be an idea for anyone thinking of buying a Canal receiver to wait a while, as no doubt test transmissions from AB3 will start before the second half of 2009. If anybody is interested in finding out more on the proposed measures it's in December's edition of TELE SATELLITE.

 

Frank

[Clair]

[quote user="flittle"]Eric Besson, 'Le Secretaire d'Etat à l'Economie numérique' has announced his plan 'France Numérique 2012'.[/quote]

Details here: http://francenumerique2012.fr/

[David_Janet]

More interesting stuff! - but can I drag the thread back to the situation I'm trying to sort out.[:)]

As I said earlier, I have the 'dish fitter' coming next tuesday, and I shall explain what I want, and see what he comes up with, but, I've since thought of another thing I might want to do, and that is I'm thinking of getting the latest Humax Foxsat HD PVR (which apparently are as rare as hens teeth at the moment), but when they become available.

Someone has said, because it has twin tuners to allow the watching of one channel whilst recording another, that it will need 2 aerial cables.

If this is the case, then I gues it would be wise to get the 'dishman' to do it while he's here, but (this is where I really get confused...) will it require 'dual' LNB, 'twin' LNB, 'quad' LNB or what? (and what's the difference between 'twin' and 'dual'??)

And, because I will have a 'french' dish, and an 'english' dish, (...you know what I mean....!) will both dishes require the same LNB/cabling setup?

Thanks again, for suffering this fool....[:$]

David

[Martin963]

The British (Astra 2) dish will need a twin universal LNB for your proposal.    Not to be confused with a monobloc (which you don't want) which is what I think is described in some circles as a dual LNB;   this is again two LNB's but effectively strapped together so that when mounted one "points" at Astra 1 and the other at Hotbird,   but using just the one dish.. You can also get quad LNB's,  not to be confused with what I think are called Quattro (which you don't want).    A quad LNB is like the twin but with four separate outputs,   a quattro also has four outputs but they are split differently,   so that instead of being four independent LNB's the outputs divide the spectrum between High and Low band and H and V polarisation thus:

Hi/V

Lo/V

Hi/H

Lo/H

This has its uses,  but not not not for you!

   

If you explain why you want a twin LNB (which is just two LNB's in one unit,  with separate connectors) the installer will I'm sure co-operate.    Two cables leave the LNB completely separately and arrive at the box, one for the viewing tuner and one for the recording tuner.

I'm not sure if Canalsat will do something similar for TNTparSat in the future,   the box you're getting certainly only needs one input.

As to TNT progs FTA on AB3,   well interesting but I'd be surprised given the problems of copyright.    But if it's true it's good news.   I'll go away and read the article!

[Martin963]

pg 23 of that Adobe report from M Besson does indeed suggest that he wants a second TNT via satellite system.    Well spotted flittle!

Which is truly fascinating,   because a) it'll cost money for carriage and it's not clear who's going to pay that    b)  if it's FTA there may well be rights problems   c)  the TNT channels are already carried twice over on AB3,   but in forms that either require a subscription (BIS bouquet) or the obtaining of an unobtainable Newtec receiver (transmitter feeds).

I'd give a lot to see what Telesat has to say on the subject,  but don't think I'm going to find a copy in Devon!!

Thanks for flagging up that report,   it's going to be very very interesting to see how this works out.  

[David_Janet]

Thanks, Martin. I now have it clear in my mind what I need to ask for.

Much appreciated.

David

[Martin963]

No problems,   let us know how the Sagem performs and whether it gets Arte HD.

A French contact has kindly emailed me a copy of the relevant part of December's Telesatellite.   It would be very nice if TNT appeared as a non-subscription offer on AB3,   but like me he feels there's many a slip 'twixt  etc etc .