Storms and phones/computers

[confused of chalus]

We have been warned to unplug 'everything' when there are storms and lightning - and we do unplug the phones and computer. The storm season having started early this year[8-)] I really wondered just what the likelihood of a damaging strike is? I've only had the computer on for a short while in the past three days and have missed several phonecalls.

We never had to unplug in the UK (though I admit the forked lightning was nowhere near as common).

 Are we really so vulnerable here? (We do have a surge protector on the orange box, but unplug anyway)

Any advice?

Kathy

[JohnRoss]

I can only tell you that we have lost two phones and one AOL box to storms over the last nine years and one had a protection device between it and the socket. We have also lost one protection type mains socket strip with phone protector to lightning just recently. We always unplug mains and phone line now to the computer during storms or over night if predicted. In our experience it is the phone lines that seem to be most likely to pick up surges and do the most damage so yes I think we are all vulnerable, more so in the countryside with overhead cables! I should continue to be cautious and good luck................JR 

[AnOther]

I agree.

Back in UK lightning, and the consequential damage, was a rarity and it certainly never happened to me but within months of being in France my 1st router blew up literally in front of my eyes - there was a storm but no lightning actually evident - and on another occassion my neighbour lost a TV, a Sky box, and a couple of other items I forget.

For me the possibilty of a couple of missed phone calls is a small price to pay in comparison to the inconvenience and cost of replacing knackered devices and appliances.

Most people who might have cause to contact us urgently know our mobile numbers so could get hold of us if needs be.

[Chrissie]

We lost a modem and, on a different occasion, the electric brain for our automatic gate (fortunately covered by our insurance as it was v. expensive to replace.)

People phoning you whilst you are unplugged will presumably get just an unanswered ringtone, so the same result as if you weren't at home......

Chrissie (81)

[JohnRoss]

................get just an unanswered ringtone, so the same result as if you weren't at home......or the free FT answer phone service on 3103 if you have activated it....................JR

[Clair]

I have had a fried modem on an old PC and more recently our old Neufbox met its death via the phone cable, which unfortunately is not connected to the surge protector.

The AC lead on my laptop also fried last year, but thankfully, the lead has a built-in surge protector and the laptop did not suffer.

If there are thunderstorms close by, I just unplug everything essential or valuable before going to bed, even if the items are plugged into surge protectors.

[confused of chalus]

Thanks everyone - that's fine, we will continue to unplug. I only wondered if it was an urban myth! Obviously not.

Kathy

[pachapapa]

[quote user="JohnRoss"]................get just an unanswered ringtone, so the same result as if you weren't at home......or the free FT answer phone service on 3103 if you have activated it....................JR[/quote]

The Boxes of French ISPs give a wide range of services when a VOIP telephone option is used, obviously a simple answer/message service for all members of the family with individual passwords or the ability to check the message box from another telephone if you are on holiday or away on business; again a simple password addess code set up before one leaves home.

The FT 3103 service is really rather basic and limited.

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

Have never bothered to be honest, and only had one thing blow up, the livebox.

Have surge protection on all my electrical equipment though.

[westom]

[quote user="Clair"] I have had a fried modem on an old PC and more recently our old Neufbox met its death via the phone cable, which unfortunately is not connected to the surge protector. ... If there are thunderstorms close by, I just unplug everything essential or valuable before going to bed, even if the items are plugged into surge protectors.[/quote]

Your telcos disconnects phone service from an entire town when a thunderstorm approaches for this same reason. If their computer is surge damaged, then your entire town is without phones for four days.

Or maybe they do what you should do. What was done even 100 years ago to have direct lightning strikes without damage.

No protector is protection. Ineffective protectors (that sell with massive profit margins) do not claim protection in numeric specs. While claiming massive (and mythical) surge protection in sales brochures. The scam is that profitable.

You want what your telco does so that phones and computers work without damage during every thunderstorm. So that operators never remove headsets and leave the room - even 100 years ago. Protection has been that routine that long ago where simple concept are learned.

Protection is always about where energy is absorbed. Either a direct lightning strike is harmlessly absorbed without entering the building. Or damage is inevitable - without or without plug-in protectors. Where does energy dissipate? Answer must always exist to have protection.

If energy is inside the building, then the surge will hunt for earth destructively via appliances. Protection is always about where energy dissipates.

Every wire in every cable entering a telco's switching center must first connect to earth ground. Protection was always that simple. If that connection is made only with a wire, then 100% protection - and phones do not work. So we make that 'less than 3 meter' connection via a protector. See that number? Any answer without these numbers is how scams are promoted. Essential is the connection to single point ground. And the connection must be that short (as short as practical).

A short connection from every incoming wire (telephone, AC electric, cable TV, satellite dish) to earth means energy is not inside a building. A connection to single point ground means every one of those wires must make that 'less than 3 meter' connection to the same earth ground. Where does energy dissipate? Harmlessly in earth and outside the building.

For AC electric, that means one 'whole house' protector. Protectors are installed to earth direct lightning strikes - and remain functions. Therefore a minimal 'whole house' protector starts at 50,000 amps. Protector that costs about one Euro per protected appliance. This is how your telco does it. And why your telcos wastes no money on plug-in protectors. How it was done even 100 years ago. Since effective solutions do not have massive profit margins - retail salesmen may not discuss it.

Lightning is typically 20,000 amps (more critical numbers). Therefore an effective protector (at least 50,000 amps) earths direct lightning strikes - and remains functional. A lightning strike down the street to AC wires is a direct strike to your household appliances IF a 'whole house' protector is not earthed.

What is necessary to protect plug-in protectors? One properly earthed 'whole house' protector. Why does your telco provide service during every thunderstorm? Telcos suffer at least 100 surges with every thunderstorm – and no damage. Technology is that standard, effective and that well proven. And rarely known to the so many who learn only from hearsay or retail brochures.

Some replies are classic hearsay - contrary to well proven science. Cable TV and satellite dish need no protectors. Those coax cables must connect 'less than 3 meters' to earth before entering the building. AC electric and telephone wires also must make that same short connection – but via a 'whole house' protector.

All appliances contain significant protection. Your concern is a rare surge that occurs maybe once every seven years. Rare surge that will overwhelm protection already inside every appliance. The informed spend much less money to protect even the dishwasher, furnace, RCDs, fire alarms, radios, and every computer. Do what was done even 100 years ago so that telco operators could work attached to headsets during every thunderstorm.

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

[pachapapa]

What is a telco and why do you pepper your post with br?

As to surge protection I recall in Zambia during the monsoon the surges on the power line from the Kariba Dam to the Copperbelt caused a rather sophisticated thyristor controlled winder to trip out several times a day. I have read your post and not sure how your earthing recommendations would have rectified the situation.

[Pickles]

[quote user="pachapapa"]What is a telco and why do you pepper your post with br?[/quote]

Telco = jargon abbreviation for a generic telecommunications company

The reason why there were so many <br> in the posting is that the poster or his software tried to use HTML (ie embedded hypertext webpage mark-up commands). EDIT: which he has now removed (thanks!)

As for the rest I am, as you are, not sure what the relevance of the whole posting is other than to provide a résumé of incoming surge protection theory.

Regards

Pickles

[AnOther]

[quote user="westom"]Your telcos disconnects phone service from an entire town when a thunderstorm approaches for this same reason. If their computer is surge damaged, then your entire town is without phones for four days[/quote]Methinks the poster does not hail from these here parts [Www]

[westom]

[quote user="pachapapa"] As to surge protection I recall in Zambia during the monsoon the surges on the power line from the Kariba Dam to the Copperbelt caused a rather sophisticated thyristor controlled winder to trip out several times a day. I have read your post and not sure how your earthing recommendations would have rectified the situation.[/quote] See this video as one example: http://www05.abb.com/global/scot/scot245.nsf/veritydisplay/82482e6de5c99323c125700500459729/$File/surgearresters.wmv

If no 'whole house' protector earthed on your home, then that home has virtually no surge protection. No protection no matter how many protectors are adjacent to electronics. No earth ground means those plug-in protectors do nothing. And do not claim to provide that protection.

Only the protector connected less than 3 meters to single point earth ground (yes that four word expression is critical) provides effective protection. And costs tens of times less money.

Telco - telephone company. It wastes no money on plug-in protectors. Only earths a 'whole house' type protector. Therefore suffers at least 100 surges with each thunderstorm - and no damage. [I don't put the HTML in. The system does that or changes everything to one big paragraph.]

[Clair]

[quote user="Pickles"]The reason why there were so many <br> in the posting is that the poster or his software tried to use HTML (ie embedded hypertext webpage mark-up commands). EDIT: which he has now removed (thanks!)[/quote]

Not quite.

The forum software is rather old and the browser used by the poster is incompatible when [quotes] are posted in a reply.

As a mod, I can - and I do - edit such posts when I catch them, to make them more legible to forum users.

Although I must say I still find Westom's posts illegible, even without the HTML coding!! [:P]

[powerdesal]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

What is a telco and why do you pepper your post with br?

As to surge protection I recall in Zambia during the monsoon the surges on the power line from the Kariba Dam to the Copperbelt caused a rather sophisticated thyristor controlled winder to trip out several times a day. I have read your post and not sure how your earthing recommendations would have rectified the situation.

[/quote]

 

I recall in Zambia we used to have meningi strikes during the rainy season, we lost many power lines, the MV ones had auto-reclose. (1968-72)

[westom]

[quote user="Clair"] Although I must say I still find Westom's posts illegible, even without the HTML coding!! [/quote] If the protector does not connect less than 3 meters to single point earth ground, then it is a scam. And its own numeric specs do not even list protection. And sells for multiple times more money. How is that difficult? If I said only that and did not include the reasons why, the more educated would conclude I am lying. That is a fundamental point. Any post that cites a solution and does not say why - with numbers - is should be considered a lie. Anyone who learned from history knows that because of Saddam’s WMDs – that only existed when numbers were ignored -ie Saddams Uranium obtained from a French company in Niger. Lies are easy when numbers are ignored. The only effective projector always has this wire that connects less than 3 meters to earth ground. Why? Explained earlier. This would be the executive summary. Anyone an executive? If not, then go read the longer post. It was written for you who know because you also know why.

Above was nothing but pure ASCII text. This system corrupted multiple paragaphs into one massive unreadable paragaph. Internet Explorere - latest version - did not corrupt this submission. Apparently this site needs special addons embedded in the browser.

[Quillan]

This site needs IE8 in Compatibility mode to function correctly.

What this guy is going on about as far as I can see is what we call a 'lightening rods' mounted at one or more of the highest points on your house and connected to a stake placed in the ground. This is OK if your house is struck by lightening but does not protect you from things coming down cables from other places. The other units he is talking about is something like THIS (its a type of surge protector) which you can buy in the UK and but I have not seen one in France. I think its because in the UK they use PME earthing but in Europe the neutral 'floats' and this type of kit won't work although I am not certain but it may be worth some investigation if anyone is interested.

[AnOther]

I recall, somewhere here I think, a discussion along the lines that insurance companies don't approve of lightning conductors on domestic properties the basis being that they attract lightning [blink]

PS: This was originally composed in Opera to check compatibility [;-)]

[Quillan]

I have to say I haven't seen one on a house round here and I can't remmeber seeing one of church's either but then I don't walk around looking for them.