TVA increase on internet

[halfblind]

I've just received an email from Orange my internet and telephone provider that as from 2011 the vat rate will be raised for those that include TV in their contract.

I do not have TV in my contract but they are still increasing my monthly charge.

Anyone else seen this yet ?

[pachapapa]

There was a long confusing thread earlier in the year when the TVA increases were announced; the OP of that thread purported to induce people to believe in it's universal application. However the truth of the matter is that the increase was only to be applied to "Triple Play" contracts and not to "Double Play" contracts; similarly ADSL Nu contracts were not included. In practice it is unlikely that the TVA increase will apply to anyone without Full Degroupage.

[minnie]

We've had notification that our monthly fee will go up from 24.90 to 26.46 because of the TVA increase. There's no mention of TV in our e-mail from Orange - just TVA increase on internet.

[pachapapa]

The portion of the contract corresponding to TV will increase from 5,5% to 19,6%.

The portion corresponding to ADSL and telephone has ALWAYS been 19,6%.

[BJSLIV]

I haven't had the letter yet but I suspect that all Orange subs will be going up.

I note that even though I have their cheapest deal half of it has been taxed at 5.5%. I think this may be an accounting ruse, a bit like when MFI used to charge part of their prices as furniture insurance. I think Orange have been saying that everyone has access to their TV on the PC service, hence 50% at 5.5%.

My last bill was.................

Vos Abonnements, forfaits et options

Abonnement "Découverte" - TVA réduite

d u 01 / 1 2 /2 0 1 0 a u 3 1 / 12 / 2 0 1 0 1 mois 8,84€/mois 8,84 5,50% 9,33

Abonnement "Découverte" - TVA normale

d u 01 / 1 2 /2 0 1 0 a u 3 1 / 12 / 2 0 1 0 1 mois 8,84€/mois 8,84 19,60% 10,57

So I assume it will be 21 Euros from February.

________________________________________________________________________________________

T o t a l d e v o tr e f a c t u r e 17,68 19,90

[Quillan]

So what happens if you are within a 12 month contract?

[Danny]

Quillan, there would appear to be no change to your 12 month engagement as far as Orange are concerned.

I recieved the mail tonight

"A compter de votre facture du 1er février 2011, vous paierez 32.00€

TTC/mois

au lieu de 29.89€ TTC/mois"

I have Formule Plus Internet and telephone but no TV either by satellite or by ADSL. So it would appear that Orange considers the commercial product the same, whether or not one has TV. i.e it may be dual play in reality but triple play on paper for them.

They will likely say to anyone who complains that as an Orange ADSL customer, you have access to Orange web TV therefore it applies to you. This will probably mean that even those - as BJSLIV said - on Découverte Internet will see their bills going up.

Danny

[Danny]

P.S. here is the full text of the email if anyone wants to know:

Augmentation de la TVA relative à votre offre internet

		Chère cliente, cher client, Vous avez bénéficié jusqu'à présent d'un taux de TVA réduit sur une partie du prix hors taxe de votre offre d'accès internet. Suite aux modifications du taux de TVA prévues par la loi de finances pour 2011, cette mesure fiscale disparaît. Nous sommes de ce fait contraints de modifier le tarif TTC de votre abonnement. A compter de votre facture du 1er février 2011, vous paierez 32.00€ TTC/mois au lieu de 29.89€ TTC/mois. Afin de vous apporter toutes les informations nécessaires sur cette hausse de TVA, nous vous invitons à cliquer ici. Nous vous remercions de votre compréhension et vous offrons 2 000 points fidélité* avec Davantage internet. Pour en bénéficier, cliquez-ici. Fabrice André Directeur de la relation clients

[Quillan]

The reason I asked about the contract is because I changed mine 6 months ago and have a new contract which has nearly 6 months left. I can understand them putting up the price for those that have gone beyond the initial 12 months contract but was wondering that if you are within that contract time can they increase the price because you have signed a contract at a fixed price, if you see where I am coming from. Having said that I am sure that somewhere in the small print they can.

[Danny]

Well, in theory if they change the terms/price of the contract, they are obliged to allow you to cancel without penalty or accept the new conditions. But they have been quite sneaky in already giving all Orange ADSL customers TV via the web - limited though it is. So they will argue that they have not changed the price (it is the TVA that has changed only) and that this applies to all cutomers as they all have TV via Orange.[:'(]

There are plenty murmurings on French forums about this too. Orange have about 8 million ADSL customers so it affects a lot of people.

Danny

[Quillan]

I am specifically talking about Orange because I am one of their customers but the same must be said about the other ISP's surely and how are they dealing with it?

I would have thought that being as you are in a current contract of 12 months the ISP has to pick up the difference until you become 'off contract' at then end of the initial period. I mean you have signed a 12 month contract for specific goods for a specific price. I suspect however they all have it sown up pretty tight with some small print hidden away somewhere. I am just wondering thats all, I guess we will all have to bite our lip's and just accept the change because at the end of the day it's not the ISP it's the government.

[Danny]

Hang on a minute,

Someone has pointed out to me that I missed this in the small print of the email.

Nous vous rappelons que conformément au code de la

consommation, vous disposez de la possibilité de résilier votre contrat

sans frais et dans un délai de 4 mois après l'entrée en vigueur de ce

changement de tarif.

In case anyone needs a quick translation, We remind you that in line with consumer law, you havethe possibility to cancel your contract without charges up to 4 months after this change of price takes effect.

So it appears I was wrong......

The question now is what to do. Cancel the Orange account and go with someone else or keep it and accept the increase in cost. The new Orange offers from January will be sure to include this charge.

Free have a new offer which may be attractive to those in an area degroupé by Free. It has inclusive calls to all French mobiles among other novelties. For those like us in the sticks there is not a lot of choice.

Danny

EDIT P.S. all of the major ISPs are now changing their offers - most like Free and SFR now have two offers at different prices one basic and one luxury offer with better equipment and services for about 5 euros more. These mostly apply in a 'zone degroupée' though.

[pachapapa]

I tried to change Alice ADSL Nu to a Free Revolution Box; they laughed at me; baskets!

[Quillan]

I would have a look at the degroup test first Danny because in my case Orange give the best offer by far for what I want and the, unfortunatly, low speed I get. Plus to be honest I have found their service to be very good and I am very happy with them even when things go wrong which they seldom do.

[Chancer]

It will be interesting to see if any of them have the commercial nouse to see this as an opportunity to harvest customers from the competition by either not passing on all or some of the TVA increase.

I can see it now, Free.fr still only €29.99 no TVA increase, make a resiliation now and join us.

Given that so few restaurant owners passed on even a fraction of the TVA reduction I think the above is just a pipe dream but its a golden opportunity for he who dares [:D]

[Quillan]

[quote user="Chancer"]

It will be interesting to see if any of them have the commercial nouse to see this as an opportunity to harvest customers from the competition by either not passing on all or some of the TVA increase.

I can see it now, Free.fr still only €29.99 no TVA increase, make a realisation now and join us.

Given that so few restaurant owners passed on even a fraction of the TVA reduction I think the above is just a pipe dream but its a golden opportunity for he who dares [:D]

[/quote]

You are having a laugh or you can't possibly be talking about the French. I am afraid no such thing exists in France.