Roaming charges to be scrapped in 2014

[Pickles]

The European  Commission voted (apparently 7 days ago) to bring forward planned future caps on roaming charges (there is already a planned reduction to take effect this July): the new proposal is that from mid-2014, it will cost you the same to use your mobile phone in whichever EU country you are in as it would to use it in your (or rather your mobile's) home country. This includes costs for making and receiving calls and texts, AND for using mobile internet.

I suspect that this will lead to increased "basic" call/internet charges, at least in the short term, but the aim is to "encourage" consolidation of operators across the EU eg Vodaphone, Orange, etc will have to start offering their customers some of the advantages of them being trans-national operators.

Just remember to switch off if you are travelling through Switzerland or are near its boarder and connecting to a mast located there!

[Quillan]

Do you think that will mean that if you have free calls on your mobile in France to Frenc phones and visit Spain (as an example) you will continue to make free calls back to France?

[Jako]

No, the price of the 'free' calls will rise to the roaming costs.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Quillan"]Do you think that will mean that if you have free calls on your mobile in France to Frenc phones and visit Spain (as an example) you will continue to make free calls back to France?[/quote]

Yes. Well, they're not really "free" are they? They are "included" in your forfait. My guess is that "fair use" clauses on lower-cost "unlimited" offerings will be invoked or tightened up.

Essentially what the EC is trying to get to is that instead of having a contract with O2 UK or O2 Ireland or Telefonica (which are all the same company - IIRC! - but currently operating as separate units), you will have a contract with O2 "Europe". Ditto Vodafone, Orange. Cross-border partnerships will be forged between smaller partners, but essentially you will have a single market for mobile telecoms.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

Interesting.

I have a pay-as-you-go O2 sim. With that I get 100 free texts a month, which I never use as i'm in the UK. Will this ruling mean I get them free in France as well?

[Rabbie]

[quote user="HoneySuckleDreams"]

Interesting.

I have a pay-as-you-go O2 sim. With that I get 100 free texts a month, which I never use as i'm in the UK. Will this ruling mean I get them free in France as well?

[/quote]The implication of the legislation suggests that you will. But however Iwould not be surprised if O2 change the terms and conditions of your offer so that you can only use the 100 texts while in the UK. But time will tell

[BJSLIV]

The aim of the policy is to reduce the number of providers in the market. I believe there are something like 100 operators across the EU. They believe that the market would operate more efficiently if there were 4 or 5 operators covering the whole market as in the USA.

Merging suppliers would encourage greater investment in infrastructure which is currently hindered by fragmentation. It was stated that the 4G system in advancing more quickly in Africa than in Europe because of this proliferation of operators in the EU.

We shall see!

[Rabbie]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]The aim of the policy is to reduce the number of providers in the market. I believe there are something like 100 operators across the EU. They believe that the market would operate more efficiently if there were 4 or 5 operators covering the whole market as in the USA.

Merging suppliers would encourage greater investment in infrastructure which is currently hindered by fragmentation. It was stated that the 4G system in advancing more quickly in Africa than in Europe because of this proliferation of operators in the EU.

We shall see![/quote]Not sure if this will have the desired effect. I am cynical enough to believe that if there are only 4/5 operators then prices will go up across the board. I remember the reduction of prices that resulted from Virgin entering this market and I do not trust the big players not to put up prices if there is no effective competition.

[Pickles]

Well, they have finally voted to scrap voice and data roaming charges from 15th December 2015.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26866966

We shall see how the telecoms companies respond, but presumably there will be knock-on effects on monthly plan charges? And I can't help thinking that there will have to be an effect on those suppliers who exist in only one country (those who piggy-back on other networks).

[Quillan]

Having watched the debate between Farrage and Glegg the other evening when this was bought up believe it or not, I wonder if Farrage  (who normally abstaines or votes no) voted for it as well? I am not trying to 'stir' things it is a genuine question.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Quillan"]Having watched the debate between Farrage and Glegg the other evening when this was bought up believe it or not, I wonder if Farrage  (who normally abstaines or votes no) voted for it as well? I am not trying to 'stir' things it is a genuine question.[/quote]

Was he present for the vote?

[Jako]

Yes, but he has no opinion, Farrage did not vote:

http://www.votewatch.eu/en/european-single-market-for-electronic-communications-draft-legislative-resolution-vote-legislative-r.html

Apparently he has no clue, as he hardly ever votes:

http://www.votewatch.eu/en/nigel-farage.html

[Quillan]

Thanks for the link Jako.

I can understand why the Tory MEP's didn't vote or vote against, protecting the phone companies profits no doubt. I don't understand why so many of the EFD group either didn't vote (like Farrage)  or voted against. I mean there has been a lot about these roaming charges in the newspapers and on TV over the years and how they rip people off and I would have seen it as an opportunity to screw the phone companies at the same time as well as appealing to the public by saving them money. Obviously their personal political beliefs take preference over what is good for their constituents. Still who knows what goes on in these peoples minds.

I was wondering that as I get 2 hours of free calls per month will I then be able to use them in other EU countries when this comes in to force? I rather suspect however that they will come up with some crafty reason why I can't.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Quillan"]I was wondering that as I get 2 hours of free calls per month will I then be able to use them in other EU countries when this comes in to force? I rather suspect however that they will come up with some crafty reason why I can't.[/quote]

Well, this is what I've been getting at really. The proposal is that it would cost the same wherever you are in Europe, so if you have 120 free voice minutes per month and 1 Gb of data, they could be used anywhere. I suspect that the big, multinational operators could accommodate that (although they will kick and scream about it) but prices might go up across the board in response. The smaller operators could have more difficulty. I think that some of the lower-cost options will end up costing more.

[Quillan]

Well Pickles there was something on the news last night and that was a big question i.e. would the operators put prices up to cover any costs.

My personal view is that the 'systems' for connecting mobile phones between countries have been in place now for many years and that the money the operators have made from roaming must of more than paid for it so it is not as if they are losing out on the cost of installing the systems. In fact they have actually done very nicely out of roaming charges over the years. BUT seeing as these companies seem to be a cartel, which I thought was not legal, no doubt they will all meet up somewhere and work out something between them that means we end up no better off at the end of the day. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

[EuroTrash]

Now I don't understand these things - but it seems to me that if you subscribe to say sfr, and you use your phone in the UK on the 02 network, well 02 will obviously not want to let you do that for free. So it will charge sfr for the call, because sfr is your provider. Hence sfr will want to charge you more for that call, because it's cost them more than if you were in France using their own network.

So how is this supposed to work under the new system? Are companies supposed to stop charging each other on the basis that it's a two way thing?

[Jako]

What costs? There are (almost) no extra costs, just charges. When the extra charges are removed people will actually start to use their phones abroad and profits rise. Obviously this is easier for bigger providers and currently there are too many providers in Europe so the smaller ones will be absorbed. "resistance is futile"...[:D]

[Pickles]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]Now I don't understand these things - but it seems to me that if you subscribe to say sfr, and you use your phone in the UK on the 02 network, well 02 will obviously not want to let you do that for free. So it will charge sfr for the call, because sfr is your provider. Hence sfr will want to charge you more for that call, because it's cost them more than if you were in France using their own network.

So how is this supposed to work under the new system? Are companies supposed to stop charging each other on the basis that it's a two way thing?[/quote]

Hmmmm ... it just occurred to me that the following would apply, depending of course on your contract:

Currently, if I am in the UK and I call a UK number on my UK-provider phone, then I pay a certain price.

Currently, if I call a French no from the UK on my UK-provider phone, then I pay a different price (unless I have a contract that allows international calls within the call plan).

This second price would be what I would pay in future if I call a French no from within France or from Germany, etc, on my UK-provider phone.

If however, I called a UK number on my UK-provider phone from within France or Germany, I would pay the first price (ie same as UK-to-UK calls).

This means that there is a higher margin on certain calls that can be passed on (depending on your contract).

Even so, I expect that there will be changes - especially to monthly contracts - as a result of this decision

[Quillan]

[quote user="Jako"]What costs? There are (almost) no extra costs, just charges. When the extra charges are removed people will actually start to use their phones abroad and profits rise. Obviously this is easier for bigger providers and currently there are too many providers in Europe so the smaller ones will be absorbed. "resistance is futile"...[:D]
[/quote]

Hi Jako, I have sent you a PM.

Q

[Théière]

Watching this thread with interest as it will allow remote monitoring/adjusting of swimming pools via the GSM network without the need for a internet connection.  

[Pickles]

[quote user="Théière"]Watching this thread with interest as it will allow remote monitoring/adjusting of swimming pools via the GSM network without the need for a internet connection.  

[/quote]

OK, I'll bite: what's stopping you from being able to do this now? I thought that the devices that enabled this (and other things such as remote monitoring of prepayment meters etc) just had a SIM card integrated into the design?

[Théière]

No, no trick. Most of the units I have looked at are a: expensive, b: require connection to a ground based (is that the correct term) internet connection.  I used a mobile for fault text on mine but that only uses the SMS service but full functionality at reasonable price could be had if the GSM GPRS data service can be used at a reasonable price.  Possibly I could use a French SIM card but they are not as user friendly as the UK ones, although I may be biased.

It has the potential to open up a bigger field of fun without running out of SIM card time as it could be on one account.  Maybe I am wrong but all the restrictions on air/internet time have hampered development of this equipment.  It's not like the internet is based in the UK or France so why are we charged premium rates when a foreigner but locals pay less?

[Pickles]

[quote user="Théière"]No, no trick. Most of the units I have looked at are a: expensive, b: require connection to a ground based (is that the correct term) internet connection.  I used a mobile for fault text on mine but that only uses the SMS service but full functionality at reasonable price could be had if the GSM GPRS data service can be used at a reasonable price.  Possibly I could use a French SIM card but they are not as user friendly as the UK ones, although I may be biased.

It has the potential to open up a bigger field of fun without running out of SIM card time as it could be on one account.  Maybe I am wrong but all the restrictions on air/internet time have hampered development of this equipment.  It's not like the internet is based in the UK or France so why are we charged premium rates when a foreigner but locals pay less?

[/quote]

Is this the sort of basic module that you are thinking of?

http://www.cooking-hacks.com/3g-gprs-shield-for-raspberry-pi-3g-gps

Connects to Raspberry Pi - then you "just" add modules to sense and switch other equipment on.

However, wouldn't just a 3G/4G Mi-Fi hotspot do the job - then you "just" need to have controllers and sensors that use WiFi?

[Théière]

Yes that's the kind of thing along with Arduino.  Yes the hotspot would do the thing for residents with permanent internet and good reception.  I and many others wouldn't like to pay €19 for the phone line and €30 for the internet to monitor security cameras/alarms and pool equipment etc.  So this new rule could unleash a whole new era in mobile monitoring.