Monika Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Perhaps you can remember the story about the kittens, not being able to find a home for them and my neighbour refusing us to have them neutered. What we forecast has happened, we now have 10 kittens and (3) 2 mothers. When we were last at our holiday cottage our neighbour (french and also a holiday cottage) told us that the original mother had another 4 kittens but had abandoned them and has gone to live with English neighbours who had taken in one of last years kittens who has had a litter of four as well. One of last years kittens has also had a litter of 3 (1 has died) had then taken over from her mother and was feeding the four plus her own two. Whenever we arrive we immediately take over the feeding of the cats in our neighbours garden, as he only looks in every other day. Half way through our stay, the cat who was feeding the kittens, started wobbling around as if her back legs would no longer support her and within a few hours she was dead, her kittens still suckling. I was so upset, and writing this and perhaps somebody knowing what was wrong with her will help. I don't think it could have been poison because the kittens are fine, they are now feeding on milk/water and rusks and tinned cat food. And anybody wanting a kitten, there are 10 in the neighbour hood to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 HiHow awful, I've heard of a kind of nutrient defficiency shock, perhaps she was under nourished and having given birth and then feeding all those kittens it was just too much for her. My own cat's back legs went that way when his kidneys failed so could have been something like that. Someone knowledgeble will comment further I'm sure.Panda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy1 Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 I am so sorry to hear you story Monika, if only people would have their cats sterilised. I am only guessing but it could have been kidney failure. My parents 12 year old cat had similar symptoms this spring and the vet (in UK) put him to sleep as he said the cat would die anyway within hours. Perhaps the strain of feeding so many kittens led to sudden kidney failure, or perhaps she was simply worn out. I really hope that homes can be found for the kittens. It must be heartbreaking for you. Joy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre ZFP Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 An awful thing to happen and without you the kittens would surely die too. One word of caution, I am told by a colleague who is mad on cats that you should not give them cow's milk as they cannot digest it properly and it can lead to kidney damage. Goat or soya milk is OK though. I have no idea, just passing the info on. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 From what you say Monika, this young cat was hardly a year old and feeding six kittens. Since you keep posting on here about them, why don't you just do something and get them spayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Crikey Christine - Are we passing around a virtual hat ? That sounds like a big bill!Is there a scheme where Monika could get any help with the cost IF they took this option ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Animal Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 It's going to get worse and worse. I can't remember all the posts Monika has put about them now, some have since disappeared, died etc. Back in the beginning didn't it start off with one mother cat and her kittens.Maybe we could do a collect for the spaying on here. [:)] http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/797281/ShowPost.aspxhttp://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/776784/ShowPost.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monika Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 I just had really good news, a cat charity (English) whom I have also put in contact with a cat sanctuary in France and who have already helped them quite a bit and I have stayed in contact with, has offered to help with the bill of spaying. It's just not that easy to spay the females without the neighbour knowing. He said to me the other day: "Monika, you do not know how much you ave urt me to suggest to have the kittens cut!" He is really, really against it. But perhaps if I say the Charity is paying for it he might relent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monika Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 Oh I forgot, thank you to all of you to listen to my sad stories! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky luke Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Hi Monika,Sorry to hear of your loss, the exact same thing happened to our cat (she had two three week old kittens at the time - who are now thankfully doing well - we were waiting for her to wean before we spayed as she was a cat who just turned up one day and made herself at home!). The vet carried out an autopsy and said it was poison (accidental or deliberate - he couldn't say). I asked why the kittens were not affected and was told, that it does not always pass through into the mothers' milk. I was told to keep our other two cats in for ten days after the incident in order for the source of poisoning to disappear. Not sure if this reassures you, but the incidents do sound similar. RegardsLuke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana (ex tag) Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Does the poison used to kill rodents also kill cats if they eat them? My bet is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 [quote user="Monika"]I just had really good news, a cat charity (English) whom I have also put in contact with a cat sanctuary in France and who have already helped them quite a bit and I have stayed in contact with, has offered to help with the bill of spaying. It's just not that easy to spay the females without the neighbour knowing. He said to me the other day: "Monika, you do not know how much you ave urt me to suggest to have the kittens cut!" He is really, really against it. But perhaps if I say the Charity is paying for it he might relent![/quote]Excellent news ! Now, how can you soften up the neighbour ?[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monika Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 That's interesting Luke about the poison not necessarily affecting the mother milk. Because the evening before, the Farmer down the lane delivered wood to us. And he saw a small snake on our patio, we thought it was a harmless slow worm. But he said no, no, this has to be killed and stamped it with his feet. In the morning the snake had vanished and the cat had taken ill. So I wondered if the Farmer was right and it was poisonous and the cat had it. Yes Russethouse we need to think of somethings to soften up our neighbour. Actually he told me in France cats are the responsibility of the person in whose garden they have or take the kittens. We are planning to semi retire which would mean we could spend more time in France, and I am sure the kittens would move in with us and then we claim to be responsible. We then also would have plenty of time to have them spayed and look after them when recovering from the OP. I am also starting to get a bit tougher, if he is cross, so be it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 [quote user="Monika"] I am also starting to get a bit tougher, if he is cross, so be it! [/quote]Yes. Too right. He's not taking responsibility for the animal but he's not letting you take responsibility either. I think Cooperlola found you an info sheet in French explaining the benefits of spaying / neutering cats. Did he ever read it? And comprehend it? Anyway, if you do have a big vets bill for these cats, send me a pm with your vet's name and address (and your name!) and I'll send the vet a donation of €50 immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky luke Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Hi Woolybanana,Yes - that's the most likely reason they eat the poison - they see a dead or slow rat or mouse that has ingested poison and unfortunately it is transferred to the bloodstream of the cat. The paralysis in the back legs that our cat and Monika's cat experienced are, said the vet, sympomatic of styccenine (sorry on spelling), which is found in most rat poisons. They also appear disorientated, wide eyed and frightened. Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monika Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Thank you so much Catalpa for your offer of help. May I really come back to you if the bill gets to horrendous? Hopefully "Wet Nose" will pay for it, but I will also have to give a donation to Cherbourg Cat Sanctuary when I take some of them up there. So your help might come in very useful. Do I remember right, did you not give a home to two kittens from Cherbourg and they now live happily with your two pedigree cats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I really wouldn't have offered a donation on a public forum if I hadn't meant it! I also hoped that by so doing, it might prompt a few other people to say they would make a donation too. [:P] Yes I did home two kittens from the Montebourg sanctuary - which is I think the one to which you refer? They're well-settled now, 10 months on and we love them dearly... but I have to say that I would not take on animals from that sanctuary again unless I was convinced that the hygiene standards had been considerably improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monika Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 I am glad that your two kittens have settled down well. Hopefully the condition in Montebourg have improved, because "Wet Nose" has helped them quite a bit with donations and parcels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 [quote user="Monika"]That's interesting Luke about the poison not necessarily affecting the mother milk. Because the evening before, the Farmer down the lane delivered wood to us. And he saw a small snake on our patio, we thought it was a harmless slow worm. But he said no, no, this has to be killed and stamped it with his feet. In the morning the snake had vanished and the cat had taken ill. So I wondered if the Farmer was right and it was poisonous and the cat had it. [/quote]Your neighbour would have killed the snake because he considered it to be venomous, not poisonous.If anyone asks if a snake is poisonous I reply "only if you eat it" which in most cases was not actually true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suninfrance Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 It may be worthwhile asking around a couple of vets to ask if they can "do a deal on a job lot". My wild cat had three kittens last spring - 1 male (who has since disappeared) and 2 females. I took them to our local vet who wanted 300 Euros to sterilise all four. We had a few weeks to think about it and in the meantime our friend who has a horse, a donkey, 2 goats (looking for a new home), 4 dogs, 20 chickens and 13 cats, said why not take them to my vet and say you are a friend. We did that, and they did all four for just under 200 Euros.Yes, it was still expensive, but it was worth it. As for not being able to hide the fact from your french neighbour, I agree. My females all came back bound around the middle with huge white bandages to keep the stitches in because they were wild and would not come into the house to be looked after. If your vet does that, it'll be a bit of a giveaway.Your french neighbour is surely just winding you up by asking you not to get them done. Has he actually explained to you why he doesn't want them done. If he can't give you a good enough answer, then he has a very irresponsible attitutde. He knows you are prepared to look after the cats and to be honest if you are, and he is not, then get them done, now. It'll be better for you, better for him and much, much better for the cats. If he takes umbridge, then so be it, but the health of the cats is important and if they keep breeding so young, they will suffer.I'll get off my soapbox now. (LOL)Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monika Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 Yes that's a good idea Suninfrance to ask for a special deal at the Vets. My neighbour's argument is that they always had 13/14 cats at home but they just let nature take its course, survival of the fittest. I downloaded the factsheet Cooperlola pointed me to, but I don't think he even read it. He thinks it's cruel, and he will go mad if he sees the cats walk around with bandages on. He nearly fainted when my husband told him that he had a Vasectomy. He said that no French man would agree to something like that and that we will probably insist that he or his wife will have the operation after they have had another baby (he has got a very dry, nearly english sense of humor!!). But I am getting more tough and if he is cross, so be it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Ker-ching! [I]Can you get your husband to have these discussions with your neighbour. It has just occurred to me that you are just a woman so your neighbour may be conveniently ignoring what you say because you are... just a woman. More seriously, in France (allegedly!) some men take seriously what men say... perhaps your OH may have more success with getting your neighbour to read the factsheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicos Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Hello there neighbour!!![:)]How frustrating about all the cats. I too have no idea why the mother cat would have died , although it does seem an interesting idea that she may have eaten the snake.I've had a look around on Google and come up with this interesting sight I'd like to share with other cat and dog owners, although it doesn't appear to give a definate diagnosis for 'your' cat.http://www.doctordog.com/catbook/catpoison.htmlWe'd also like to offer some money either towards the operations or to the rescue centre ( although PLEASE don't let on to your neighbour as we're only just starting to make friends in the locality!![:-))])Interesting what Catalpa suggests though- worth a try!!Let us know how you get on.[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky luke Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Hi again,I know this is going a bit "off topic" but didn't know where else to post it. After our rescue cat "Smudge" died six weeks ago we thought we were coming to terms with things, especially as her two kittens were doing so well. Today the cat we have had since he was born in the cellar 18 months ago was found dead on our doorstep - no signs of trauma/car accident etc...We investigated locally and spotted some food in our neigbour's vegetable garden (he has no cats) - this food was laced with purple pellets - poison. Our beautiful grey cat, who had been castrated, vaccinated etc... died because of this horrid man who was worried about cats scratching his prize carrots!! After speaking to him (he did apologise profusely) he explained that he thought domestic cats only ate at home, the poison was for the stray cats in the village!! I've accepted his apologies as there is little else I can do - it is a small village and I think he was genuinely remorceful, but that doesn't take away the hurt and loss we are feeling tonight. Gandalf was a very beautiful special cat, his sister is missing him terribly as is the dog!! I don't think there is any wisdom in this post, I don't want to discourage people from bringing their pets to France or from adopting cats whilst they are here - just to say love them for every minute they are with you - because there is a very big hole when they go. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suninfrance Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Hi LLI am so sorry to hear about your loss - I know how devastating losing a much loved pet can be, particularly in such a horrible way. I hope now that your neighbour will investigate other measures for keeping the local stray cat off his prize carrots - there are other ways - and that this doesn't happen again. Maybe he could sprinkle "cat pepper" around his plants. I have seen it on sale in larger M. Bricolage stores and if I remember rightly, our local Co-op Agricole also sells it. I know that this suggestion comes after the loss of your cats, but I hope it helps educate your neighbour to a more humane way of protecting his crop and respecting the animals, be they pets or wild, that live around the area.I would not lot it deter you from getting another cat or two, or for other people who want to bring their pets over from England. I know from bitter experience that it can happen in England too. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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