badger baiting in France

[odile]

this coming week-end 17/18th May, there will be a badger baiting contest in Cluny/Bourgogne. Please write to the Maire of Cluny and to the Department d'agriculture et foret/Macon- to express your dismay. They say the badgers will only be dug out then released. To dig out badger, all sorts of tools are used, like tongues, spades, etc, and badgers are often seriouly injured in the process. Releasing them may be more cruel than killing them. Also cubs are still underground and not yet weaned- and the mother will protect them to the death. As badger jaws are designed to lock-in, if it bites a dog or a hunter, the only way to release is to smash their jaw with a spade or axe. Any adult badgers dug out will disappear for days- thus leaving helpless cubs underground to starve or to suffocate, if the digging as left them with a blocked tunnel. The whole process, venerie sous terre, is barbaric and should be banned. If it is allowed, then it should be only allowed between July and November, outside the gestation and lactiation/breeding period. Please pass on - and hurry o

nly a few days left. Last year the contest was in Allier - next year it may be near you.

[Jonzjob]

I was under the impression that this barbaric idiot practice was banned by the EU and if that is the case the gandarms should be informed!

 

[Jacqui Too]

This is a strange post and I'm not sure what to make of it!

Cruelty to any animals is abhorrent and should be stopped.

But who is organising this baiting? Do the authorities now about it? Are there laws against it? I can't believe France would allow such pubic cruelty to occur! Is this sort of  'event' under the control of the local Maries?

The poster does not say who they are and how they came to know about this 'event'

Yes it sounds disgusting what is about to happen, but this post just doesn't feel right!

I hope I am wrong!

Please post again

[Dick Smith]

Bizarre as it may seem it is happening, and it is a competition for unearthing badgers and foxes.

Du 25 au 28 mai 2006 à Saint Bonnet Tronçais dans l'Allier, l'association

des amis du rallye "Les Mailleries" organise, avec le soutien de l'Association

Des Déterreurs (ADD) et l'association Française des Equipages de Vénerie Sous

Terre (AFEVST), un championnat international de déterrage... de

blaireaux et renards. Ce concours comptera environ 300 chasseurs

accompagnés d'une centaine de chiens de race (fox, teckel, jacks russel). Le

but est d'acculer l'animal au fond de son terrier puis de creuser à l'aide de

pelles afin d'attraper les bestioles en question avec des pinces. Une fois

attrapés, blaireaux et renards sont soit tués (arme à feu, arme blanche, dague

de vénerie) soit relâcher à distance du lieu de capture. La prédation et la

destruction des récoltes sont les deux raisons invoquées par ceux qui

pratiquent ce type de chasse. Pour les 30 associations de

protection de la naturequi protègent les mammifères dits

"nuisibles" et qui demandent au préfet de ne pas l'autoriser, il s'agit avant

tout d'un jeu cruel. Rappelons que dans l'Allier, les effectifs de blaireaux ne

sont pas chiffrés précisément et que cet animal est protégé dans plusieurs pays

européens. Rappelons que l'animal est en période de reproduction... Rappelons

que ce concours va se dérouler en forêt de Tronçais, bientôt classée

patrimoine de l'humanité. Moi, j'en connais un qui va se retourner

dans sa tombe, (vu que c'est là qu'il habitait... et qu'il réside désormais !):

c'est le François Terrasson. Il va se retourner... et venir les

secouer par la peau du cul ! Pour le programme détaillé des journées de

déterrage et toutes les infos sur cette distraction (aussi raffinée et amusante

que la chasse à courre), allez creuser du côté de mammiferes.org ou de Action Nature. A force de creuser

le sujet, j'ai aussi déniché un

blogueur ou euse (?) qui vit dans le coin et qu'est pas d'accord avec le

déterrage ! Au fait, c'est qui le plus blaireau, dans tout ça ?

It doesn't look very pleasant on the basis of this report.

http://www.missecolo.com/tag/blaireau-Cluny

http://bourgogne-franche-comte.france3.fr/info/42469101-fr.php

http://www.enviscope.com/14929-blaireau-Cluny-chasse-interdiction.html

Whether or not you agree with the culling of badgers, this seems pretty cruel and unnecessary.

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="Jacqui Too "]

I hope I am wrong!

[/quote]

Well after reading your post Dick I was wrong[:(] I thought quite wrongly though that this may have been a perverted way of advertising the event! 

I am a country person and live on a farm, I know what sort of damage some wild animals do, I have lived with the damage conflicted on landowners and farmers from Foxes, Badgers, Rabbits and Moles and I see the need for control.

But this is not the way!!

[Jonzjob]

As a mater of interest Jacckie, what damage do badgers doo?

[Hoddy]

Like some others here I couldn't believe this was true. Where are the animal rights extremists when they are really needed ?

Unfortunately badgers fight very well and will provide just the kind of spectacle that these people enjoy.

Try reading Badger by John Clare for a description.

 

Hoddy

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]As a mater of interest Jacckie, what damage do badgers doo?[/quote]

JJ

Unfortunately badgers carry TB which in some areas is debilitating many dairy farmers herds,  I love badgers and I don't have any on my land and I don't have any cattle either now, but it is a problem for many.  

[Dick Smith]

It seems that farmers will rid themselves of badgers. Visiting some friends in rural Hertfordshire recently I was surprised by the number of dead badgers by the roadside. Not roadkill, but killed by farmers and dumped by the roadside to look like it.

Or is that a rural myth?

As I understand it there is divided opinion as to whether the badgers spread TB amongst dairy herds or catch it from them. Hence the controversy over badger culling generally.

[Catalpa]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]... what damage do badgers doo?[/quote]

We lived in a heavily populated (by badgers) area of Wiltshire. There was a nearby wood that had plenty of large setts. When the population grows, badgers like to build themselves satellite sets which may be connected to or are nearby main setts. A farmer local to us used to lose chunks of field to the badgers - he'd be ploughing / spraying / planting - whatever - and the tractor would suddenly sink into a sett. Uusually he'd have to get another tractor to pull the first tractor out and on one occasion he got two tractors stuck in the same sett when a second section collapsed. This made areas of the field close to unusable. There are laws about working close to badger setts (even inadvertently demolished badger setts) and he had to get permission to get earth-moving vehicles in to level the surface out again. The permissions from (I think it was licence from MAFF, pre-DEFRA) took about a year to come through.

There are also potential problems for livestock because heavier animals can break legs when subsiding into a sett and of course there can be problems with undermining tracks and even buildings.

I'm not going into the badgers and TB debate because I'm sure there's a problem but I'm really not sure there's a definite link.

And it should go without saying that I find digging out and baiting abhorrent.

[Catalpa]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]

Or is that a rural myth?

[/quote]

I'm sure it does happen but I suspect rarely. The amount of badgers killed on the roads is probably in direct relation to what the local badger population is and how busy the road is at dawn and dusk. The wood I referred to in the previous post was very heavily populated by badgers. If I had an early morning start in spring / early summer, it was not unusual for me to see between 8 - 10 badgers foraging along the verges in a 1.5 mile stretch of fortunately quiet lane. Even so, I often used to see dead badgers on that stretch, on one sad occasion, 3 of them. I don't believe a farmer had killed them and dumped them. The badgers were just caught out by cars. They used to seem particularly oblivious to diesel cars.

[Iceni]

[quote user="Catalpa"]

And it should go without saying that I find digging out and baiting abhorrent.

[/quote]

But is it legal ?

John

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="Iceni"]

[quote user="Catalpa"]

And it should go without saying that I find digging out and baiting abhorrent.

[/quote]

But is it legal ?

John

[/quote]

I think we all agree that cruelty is totally unacceptable, and we have to distinguish the difference between, digging out and humanely dispatching the animal whether it is badgers, foxes or rabbits, all of which I am quite sure is legal in France. But what is not acceptable is the baiting, 'baiting' to most people means provoking the animal into fighting and defending itself from dogs etc. for the entertainment of others. And I think the the tittle of the OP is misleading in that it implies that the 'event' will involve baiting as we know it, which may not be the case.

[odile]

Sorry for the confusion. The competition will be for badger digging- and not 'baiting' - The Departement d'agriculture et forets/Macon has given permission for the event to take place near Cluny. The diggers claim that the badgers will be released, and not killed- so no cruelty is involved! However there are many flawa to that argument:

the badgers will fight to the death rather than be caught, especially as cubs are still unweaned and live mostly underground at this time of year. Diggers use tools like long tongues, pick axes and spades to take hold of the badger- and badgers get badly injured in the process. the dogs also bite  and tear them and cause horrendous injuries. Dogs also get very badly torn/bitten- they are very highly prized animals and lots of pride is taken in winning, and they fetch huge amounts of money. the badger jaw is designed to lock- so it is impossible to prize it open (most mamals can have their jaw forcefully open, like dogs for instance) so the only way to release a dog is to smash the jaw open with a spade or axe. So releasing the animals is almost more cruel than shooting them, as they slowly die of infection or starve as they can't feed. As cubs are still almost totally dependent on the mother for milk and feeding (they are born around february) - if the mother is taken and released, she won;t come back to the sett for days- thus cubs will die of starvation. Once the dogs are underground, there is no controlling them- so they will attack the cubs, tear them open or break their necks- and as the setts are dug into and the earth piled up in the tunnel, the cubs are also likely to suffocate. No cruelty indeed... they say it's just to keep tradition alive and to watch the dogs work'. At the very least, if they are going to do this 'sport' it should be done outside the gestation/lactation period, eg. between July and November.  Hope this helps explain- will be glad to answer any questions- I have been working with badgers for more than 30 years. I am amazed anybody could think that I am an 'infiltrator' advertising the event... meilleures salutations a tous,  Odile

[odile]

Hoddy - were you ever a member of the Leicestershire Badger Group?   

[Frenchie]

Sickening , truely sickening..

Bien vrai,  on se demande qui sont les blaireaux dans l histoire !! [6]

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="odile"]Sorry for the confusion. The competition will be for badger digging- and not 'baiting' - [/quote]

Ah So they say they are not baiting!

[quote user="odile"]

badgers get badly injured in the process. the dogs also bite  and tear them and cause horrendous injuries. Dogs also get very badly torn/bitten- they are very highly prized animals and lots of pride is taken in winning, and they fetch huge amounts of money.[/quote]

If this is what is going on then this is badger baiting!

[quote user="odile"] 

 I am amazed anybody could think that I am an 'infiltrator' advertising the event... meilleures salutations a tous,  Odile[/quote]

I'm sorry if I doubted your motive for posting, but you are a new poster here and you did not introduce yourself as someone who was genuinely interested in animal welfare, we have had a lot of trolls here lately.

If you are genuinely active in trying to stop this sort of thing happening then I wish you well in helping these poor animals. 

[Hoddy]

Odile, I've not been a member of the group you mention. In fact since the outrageous behaviour of the animal rights terrorists at the guineau pig farm which affected my family and the way I was threatened by some of them in Oxford Street, I won't support or join any animal organisation. It's so hard to be sure what you are supporting.

 

Hoddy

[odile]

thanks jacqui- I have telephoned the Maire in Cluny. he is really fed up as he is totally against the event taking place but he is being attacked from all sides. Permission was given by the Departement agriculture and forets in Macon. I have spoken to 2 of their representatives and followed this up with a fax. I suppose the event will take place this year- but I so hope it won't go ahead in the future- wish us bonne chance  

[odile]

Bonjour Hoddy - The Leicester Badger Group and the Badger Trust (previously Federation of Badger Groups) has NEVER been involved in intimidation or any violent action - I am pleased to say. the Group was formed to fight against badger digging and baiting with dogs - we are now involved in trying to find mitigation in favour of badgers when development or road building takes place, making sure hunts don;t block setts anymore, now it has been made illegal, that farmers don;t destroy setts or fill them with slurry. And yes, to continue the fight against baiting with dogs- a most horrendous, barbaric 'sport' - sadly English baiters now go to Ireland, France or eastern countries to continue their activities, but it IS STILL happening in the UK. Diggers/baiters are a very powerful lobby, and VERY difficult to take them to court as they need to be caught (yes) red handed. Millions of pounds have been spent by the government over past 10 years to research the TB issue, and the scientists have come to the conclusion that of wholesale cull of badgers would not lead to a significant drop in TB - in fact areas where badgers were all killed for the research actually showed a signifcant increase if TB. In Northern Ireland the incidence of TB has dropped by 50% without culling - by limiting movement of cattle, better and enforced testing and simple improvements in husbandry (like covering feeding troughs at night) - whereas in southern Ireland the TB has double recently, despite heavy culling. Now farmers are requesting a wholesale killing of badgers- despite all the scientific evidence gathered by the independent scientists employed by the Government- so it's going to be a huge battle. Wish us luck -

[Hoddy]

Odile I wasn't suggesting for a moment that your group was involved in anything illegal or violent and I, like you, find badger baiting abhorrent. What makes me angry is the tactics and priorities of some of these extreme organisations. In the case of the guineau pigs, for example, they are now imported into England from Europe where there appear to be fewer checks on how they raised. I don't understand why the RSPCA hasn't been running a campaign against chicken farming in Britain, which I regard as large scale organised cruelty, for years

I have decided to go down the 'pro' road and support Compassion in World Farming instead although I do agree that badger baiting should be opposed and wish you every success with your efforts

 

Hoddy