BQF Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Is there anyone here who works in the Uk but lives permanently in France? If so - how does it work for you - is it prohibitively expesnive to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 My wife and I do. At least we work in the UK, via the internet & telephone. On the occasions we need to visit the UK, we fly & drive (airport is about 20 mins from us). Regardless of the expense, any more frequent visits would be impossible or impractical.Unless you live in sangatte (?sp) and work in Folkstone or at a push London I doubt whether it is practical to "commute". I know of a few people who commute weekly (mostly to London), but they don't really qualify, as their place in France is just a weekender and they are "resident" in the UK.If you work in the UK, then it is best to live in the UK (you will pay alot less tax!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 A friend who lives on the Causse de Gramat is a weekly commuter to Watford. Catches dawn flight from Toulouse Blagnac to Gatwick, then various trains to Watford and travels back on Friday afternoon. It is not prohibitively expensive or he would not do it but cost was quoted as £1,000 per month (though I'm unsure if this includes b&b). Newbie who only started this in June.Another acquaintance lives on the Lot just west of Cahors and spends 10 days working in London and then 4 days at his home here - he has been doing this for 3 years or so. Rumoured to spend £700 per month.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eskenazi Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 If you work in the UK (i.e. all your income is UKgenerated) then you pay UK tax. We know quite a few people who commute: near neighbours of ours in France, forexample - he works Monday-Wednesday in Kent, Thursday-Friday from home: he gets a great travel rate via hiscompany - I think it's something like £52 return.It seems towork for them & others. I guess one might experience someform of resentment, as in the person who wrote somethingon another Forum about living in France & benefiting from the excellent Health & education services, butpaying not one penny towards them (still getting UK Child Benefit,for example..)In fact we are thinking of upping sticks ourselves - ourhouse in London is on the market & we may live in ourlittle weekend house in France whilst we look for something bigger.Only real problem is UK accommodation for the 3 days of UK work - our neighbour has a familyconnection & address in Kent, we don't have anything similar in London (where husband works) so we have to deal with that. However, moving to France would mean being mortgage - free. I'd be most interested to keep in touch with anyone else who's in the same boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Rule 1 - find a French accountant.Agree that earnings whilst yr botty is in England are subject to UK tax & Soc Sec BUT if you and yr family live in France and you send yr net earnings to France then I SUSPECT that you will be taxed etc in France. Double taxation agreement will limit the damage but there may still be something to pay here.Rule 2 - find a French accountant.HTHJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaligoBay Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Iceni's right. If you're resident in France, you have to do a French tax return, and in that you have to declare worldwide earnings.If your family's living in France, that's your "centre of interest", and the French Impots might well ask for their share. Which is where an accountant comes in!!Anybody who blithely tells you "but we're all in Europe now, it's easy" is talking out of somewhere other than their mouth!Residency affects your access to health services, replacement passports, driving licences, everything.As somebody said, there are ways round all of these, but I'm glad to be out of it. French admin only from now on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Excellant education???? must have missed out on that, half decent would have done really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaligoBay Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 LOL TU!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 A thought: If you shift the balance of residence the travelling partner spends the majority of time in France, then our Super-commuters' would surely fall into the regime of contributing to the French health system in addition to any contributions in the UK. Logic : they would no longer be temporary visitors to France hence the E109 would not cover them. The presence of the family in France would add further weight to this argument. Hence the cost would be health cost (8% less allowances), mutuelle, and any levies on unearned income, this on the assumption that any income tax liability would be covered by the higher deductions in the UK. Worst of Both Worlds? Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eskenazi Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 It's actually quite simple & you don't need to pay an accountant a small fortune to tell you: Work only in UK but live in France = tax payable in UK, fill in a French tax declaration but dual treaty stops you payingtwice. Entitlement to Health cover = E106 provided you have sufficient payment record - this enables you tohave a Carte Vitale. All works perfectly simply for themany people we know who are doing it.Excellent education - well I'm sorry it was not for you,but all those I know of (totalling some 11 children agedbetween 4 and 16) seem very happy with it, parents & children alike. It has to be better than what's on offerhere, that is if your kid, like mine, is not one of the108 who managed to get 324 marks in the 11+ (out of 1,785 who sat the exam...)and if what you were offered is, as with us, a Comp where the feral youthattend sporadically and achieve around 2 Grade E GCSEpasses each at best!I was myself educated in France from age 2 - 11, and Ihave done pretty well - managed the 11+ here after 3months of English, went on to University, M.A. etc.... I'd like my kids to have the same grounding in 'real'subjects as I had, together with good manners and respect,both of which our local UK schools have ditched in favour of 'knowing your rights' and 'self expression.' BTW I'm a teacher so I do know aboutthese things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 What happens when the e106 expires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Better here? No, my kids have gone through the full system here and it has little to recommend it. I'm one of those people who is actually interested in education anyway and not simply what concerns my own kids, as the years went by the feeling of profound disgust with 90% of the teaching staff here was a terrible thing to feel, which I never expected. And this disgust was not necessarily to do with my own kids, but other poor kids who needed a teacher to teach them and to encourage them......... and not put them down all the time and make them feel stupid, (usually these kids weren't).......the encouragement was purely for the petit choux (always the bright kids), not for those who really needed it. I agree some kids do well here and I have always said that, that top group, bright, who fit into the system, but for the rest, it is lamentable. My youngest is now getting his qualifications in the UK ( he was with the one with the problems, very bright but dyslexic). The eldest for the time being absoluley refuses anything to do with education what so ever any where, a pity, in a proper system adapted to a child's needs, and a little encouragement he would have done more than OK. And the difference in attitude alone between the many many many teachers I have met in one way or another in both countries is radical. They are a wonderful and obviously underrated group of people, UK teachers, well the ones in the NE are, when I read threads like this, it just feels like some mythical thing is being perpetuated about french education and quite unjustly. And even now I look around me and see my son's friends and friends kids. Bright kids shouldn't have doubled twice before they sit their BACS. I realise that EVERYONE, well almost everyone on here may wax lyrical about the french education system. However, I'm not surrounded by brits, but french people and I was on school councils for too many years. I've seen it, I hear it. And had the greatest bad fortune for my kids to live it.I've looked at the Education Nationale stats and it has confirmed what I have seen in this system. TU, in yet another region that thinks that dyslexic kids should go to schools for the deaf...... such an enlightened and modern system! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eskenazi Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Excuse me, but I am very interested in education in general and I would say that'profound disgust' just about sums up how I feelabout the UK system! You get what you pay for,basically - if you can afford £13,500 a year youwill get a wonderful education - if you can't, thenyou are stuck with .......... where pupils spend theirdays insulting the staff,*****ing in the back row,beating up fellow pupils and learning nothing. Encouragement for bright kids? I wish, I wish - all weencourage in the state system here is playing it forthe maximum benefits you can get, and all thathappens to the bright ones is they are bulliedfor being 'boffins.' I would love for my bright 12 year old and my bright 6 year old to be encouraged, butthey are not, most of the time in their schools beinggiven over to those with so-called 'Special Needs.'I would far rather have what's on offer in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eskenazi Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 You use E106 to get your Carte Vitale which is then renewable as and when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 And as I said, bright kids who can fit into the system do very well here. But not all bright kids do fit in either, I know too darned many who haven't fit in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicmonkey<ADDRESS><STRONG>Musicmonkey<STRONG><ADDRESS> Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 TU - We have had this discussion before, but my son's experience in the UK education system (he's also dyslexic and very bright) is a replica of what happened to your son. He didn't fit in and the UK system has failed him. PS. I have been in to my daughter's school to help today with Year 10 pupils age 14/15. They are preparing to sit a GCSE oral module in French towards the end of this week. The noise level in the classroom for those who wanted to work, and I would say that was maybe 50% of the class was unbelievable. I would not like to have to try to learn a 4 minute presentation in those conditions. When I commented to the teacher about this, she said the next class would be even louder.Musicmonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 "If you can't, thenyou are stuck with .......... where pupils spend theirdays insulting the staff,*****ing in the back row,beating up fellow pupils and learning nothing. Encouragement for bright kids? I wish, I wish - all weencourage in the state system here is playing it forthe maximum benefits you can get, and all thathappens to the bright ones is they are bulliedfor being 'boffins.' I would love for my bright 12 year old and my bright 6 year old to be encouraged, butthey are not, most of the time in their schools beinggiven over to those with so-called 'Special Needs.' "I try not to get into arguments about education and I know this is well away from the origin of the thread, but I really cannot let this go unchallenged.I am aware, of course, that there are some poor schools in the UK, perhaps particularly in London. It really is not fair though to make such sweeping statements as this about the whole of the state system. This year over 80% of the pupils in the school from which I recently retired achieved 5 or more grades A - C at GCSE. The school population includes about 50% of children from ethnic minority backgrounds and others with “special needs”. What we did for those children as with all the others was to try to tailor their education to their needs - I am proud to have former pupils with dyslexia who now have degrees.This does not blind me to the fact that there are many schools with problems - I just ask that you don’t judge the whole of the system from one example.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eskenazi Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 I find the phrase 'some poor schools' absolutelydelightful in the face of all the overwhelmingevidence that it is the majority of state schoolswhich are failing pupils who want to achieve!I do not judge from one example but from some 50+examples in 4 separate areas, schools all intimatelyknown to me either by teaching in them / asssistingin them / visiting them on my own children's behalf.Well done for getting 80% through with 5 GCSEs, but inmy considerable experience of how these things areassessed, most of these passes tend not to be in realsubjects at all, but in bogus coursework-assessedmodules of little or no use in the future. I'm sure thatwas not the case in your school but I guarantee that itis in most others. And that leaves entirely aside what the experience ofstate schools is like here for the minority who want towork! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaligoBay Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Eskenazi said "I would far rather have what's on offer in France."E, could you explain what you mean by this, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eskenazi Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Certainly, but I'll keep it very short since we're really off topic (mostly my fault). I mean a type ofeducation which is formal rather than casual,secularrather than religious, subject-based rather than 'childcentred' ( a bogus term anyway) and which promotesvalues such as respect for family,self and home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaligoBay Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I can see why it sounds good, Eskenazi, when you put it that way.Secularism yes, I'm with you 1000% of the way.Formal? Sometimes "rigid" might be a better description! There's certainly not much leeway in the system to cope for a child who's in any way not "normal".Also, French schools have (I think) the longest school days in Europe. Today, my son has classes from 8.30am till 5pm, and then he'll have homework this evening - that's a long day for a 10-year-old!Respect. I can see a huge difference between the attitude of French children towards adults and the attitude of UK children towards adults, and I do much prefer the French one. But amongst themselves children are children the world over, and there's a huge national effort in France just now to do something about the problem of bullying in schools. This excerpt is old, but clearly nothing has changed, because in the last couple of weeks it's all in the news again, with the school buses being destroyed and the violence continuing:D'autre part, depuis le 6 janvier, les enseignants et le personnel de soutien du collège des Aiguerelles de Montpellier sont eux aussi en grève pour protester contre le climat de violence. Dans le cas du collège des Aiguerelles, c'est la violence entre élèves qui a fait sauter la vapeur, une majorité de parents a décidé d'appuyer le personnel en gardant les enfants à la maison. Tous exigent des mesures supplémentaires de sécurité.Lest you think I'm being negative , here's a link to an article about la guerre between parents and profs - long, but reasonably interesting because it's a side of the education system that people in Britain don't see - and indeed, how would they! Aiguerelles college even gets another mention! Happy reading!http://www.precoces.org/site/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2234 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 My husband works 8 days in the UK. He is based in Southampton and door to door, takes three hours to get from Bergerac to work! His employer has allowed him to work 12 hour days and he manages around half time of his previous full time role.We still get child benefits and tax credits and an E106 to cover health in France.It works well for us.To chip in on the education front - our youngest has not setled at school well - one year on. It is the socialisation with the village children that has been a problem. We happen to live in a pocket of Brits and this has led to discontent locally with some villagers. My daughters hears very negative comments addressed at her from children who apear to be speaking the words of their disgruntled parents. It is not only the English children who can find it hard to integrate. We know a french family who moved here and their children have had trouble.The fli side is my other daughter is doing very well. Interestingly, she is at aschool with no other Brits.School is tough here - very academic - no room for the arts which can be tough on children who do not shine academically.Oracle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eskenazi Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Oracle - that's sad to hear about the village kids.In 'our' village, I get the feeling that the Brit kids were really wanted to add to the numbers -certainly there is no resentment & over Hallow'enours + Brit friends + 3 sets of French friends(including the Mayor's 3) are all going off 'trickor treating' together. Perhaps it's just one ofthose things - it's not as if all is perfect in everyall-English village... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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