Nearest international school to Caen.

[DBUD]

Hi All

 

My family and I are moving near to Caen in the New Year and will be looking for the nearest International school to Caen, my son is three years old, can anyone help?

 

many thanks

Darren

[Battypuss]

Out of interest, why do you want an International school? what's wrong with a French one? I warn you that most International schools are VERY expensive!

[Later]

DBUD there are lists of them on the net.  Off the top of my head, there isn't one in your neck of the woods, but I could well be wrong.  The three we've looked at are in Toulouse, Bordeaux and just north of Pau.  The latter is a junior school with a curriculum much the same as our son's present one in England.  Our view is that an international school would be an gentle way for our kids to ease into a French speaking culture.  On the other hand, I think there is a very strong case for sending our very young kids to a French school as they would learn the language faster, make French friends and we would probably become part of the local community faster.  I think if you send your kids to an international school there is a danger of isolating yourself from the locals and being apart from the community.  And as Battypuss said, they are expensive - the fees for the schools we looked at are about the same as the fees we pay in the UK. 

[Tourangelle]

I would add about international schools that obviously they are mostly private, so obviously you get what you pay for.  A friend here, who is Danish, had a bad experience with a private primary international school, which did half English half French.  she felt that the school was not really international as such, but more for ambitious French parents who wanted their kids to start English really early.  She later found out that some teachers were not properly qualified in any country and ended up withdrawing her son.  I don't think he suffered from the experience, but I would say to the original poster, if nobody recommends anywhere and you do end up just getting a list off the internet check out whether or not the teachers are qualified.  

[Val_2]

Darren. Although there are many good and many bad schools in France I don't think you could do any better than send your son to the local primaire. This way not only does he integrate locally but you do too,you gain a social life and learn what the real France is about. My kids have done all right over the last ten years in state french education and plenty of other parents on this forum will agree that theirs have benefitted as well. If you are planning to live here full time why not do like everyone else does.

[Battypuss]

I have tried looking all over the place for an International school near Caen, as others have suggested, they appear to be concentrated in the south or Paris and the nearest I can find to Caen is Rouen, which is a bit of a drive every morning and afternoon as at 3 he would be far too young to board!

There are many schools in Caen, several private. In my experience, the private ones are no improvement on the public ones, the little hot house flowers in St Lô certainly took the *iss out of my three after 12 years of being here, all three well able to speak fluent French, because they were 'different' and they suffered accordingly. I thought I was doing them a favour, I was wrong. One is now 20, the other two, in CM2 and 6ième (age 10 and 11) and educated in the French system since birth, are now both at Public schools and happy as sandboys. There is a far greater tolerance in public schools for racial diversity etc. and more chance of getting extra help with French. Mind you, at three, your son will pick up the language in no time flat and start correcting you!!! By the time he starts 'real school' at 6 you won't be able to tell him from a French kid.

I think you should reconsider. Children are extremely adaptable, especially at that age. Learning another language is something they barely notice! It's just like learning how to count your toes...

[Tourangelle]

Perhaps Darren's move is not permanent?

[Teamedup]

Just to mention that some public schools have international sections in them.

[Battypuss]

[quote]Perhaps Darren's move is not permanent?[/quote]

Since he has mentioned setting up at least one company elsewhere on this board, I presumed it was for more than a long weekend! Since the 3 year olds in Maternelle really listen to stories, play, paint, run about, and occasionally practice loops ready for writing, I doubt the child would notice what language the teacher was speaking...colouring things in does not require a vast amount of language skills!

[Cjb]

As a teacher in an International School on the Côte D'Azur I've been reading this thread with great interest. On the whole I'm in agreement with most of what has been said. There are some dubious International Schools out there. Private education does not mean quality education in France. My advice would be to start off in the french system. I certainly intend for my daughter to spend at least the majority of her primary school years in a french school. As her mother is french, speaking french shouldn't be an issue, however, writing it is another matter altogether. The same can be said for english children in the french system. If they're to achieve and maintain a good level of written English they'll need some extra support outside of school.

If you do decide to go down the International School route, as has already been stated, there are a number of french (public) schools with an international section. The costlier option is the private International Schools. Check to see whether they're ECIS (European Council of International Schools)accredited, some unaccredited schools employ under/unqualified teachers, and quite frankly I'm not surprised having seen the wages they offer.

Should you wish for them to switch from one system to another one day, It'll be far easier for them to start off in the french system and then transfer across at a later date to an International school rather than the the other way around.

I have 2 or 3 english children in my class who spent a couple of years in french schools. Both their English and French are excellent, however, they are both very able children.

As for the comment about colouring in at école maternelle, this would appear to come from someone who's never taught children of this age. Developing social skills is of the upmost importance at this age, therefore an ability to communicate is essential.

Not sure about International Schools in the north of France, they tend to centred around Paris and South Coast. Try out the ECIS website. They list all of their accredited schools in France. www.ecis.org

Chris

[Battypuss]

"As to colouring in Maternelle..." No, I have never taught children of that age! But I did have two children, both born here, who due to a couple of moves went through three years of Maternelle in three different schools! The amount of colouring/drawing they brought home would have wallpapered the entire house twice over! And the little kid next door, now aged 3 keeps giving me stuff too. Perhaps things are different in Normandy? I hasten to add the last of the three schools mentioned was a private one; if anything they produced even more stuff, perhaps to make up for the exorbitant fees?

Anyway, both are now back in the Public sector, one in 6ième and one in CM2 and going great guns. Not much Art on the curriculum now though!

[Richardbk]

If you can find a good international school and can afford it I would recommend this is the path to take. Bear in mind , however, that learning both a UK and French curriculum is very hard work, and that for the state/anglophone section type school, english tuition is limited by law to 6-7 hours / week, thus there is usually a lot of extra english homework. Results of studies show that children in this environment reach higher levels of academic achievement and are socially more aware and adaptable, when compared to the standard French system. Your children will not be isolated, as long as they continue to mix with the local community in terms of leisure and other activities.

As I have mentioned many times before the French system is Ok for those that  are average and above and can learn by rote. Mixing this with an anglophone section that encourages, team work, project work thinking for themselves is an enlightening experience. BTW - We pay roughly euros3000/year for an anglophone section that is linked to a French state school (south of Paris) - i.e this is just for the English section, there are no fees associated with the French side.

regs

Richard

[Battypuss]

Good heavens, Darren's child is THREE! I know all about the French curriculum by now, by I seriously doubt Maternelle, even in a private school, has an International Section! College or Lycée more like, which gives the poor kid some 9 years to get his/her head round French...

[Richardbk]

There are private primary schools in france that are classed as bilingual/international, starting from maternelle. State-private international schools generally start at primary.

BTW  If I had the choice, I  wouldn't wait for 9 years of the french system to destroy the life and soul out a child. An international school can be a great opportunity and a real life saver for some.

regs

Richard

 

 

 

[Cjb]

A contreversial yet interesting topic. From our point of view, with my wife being French, we don't have the same worries as some parents about her integrating into french society. There is a clear cultural divide, as far as work ethic and pedagocical practice is concerned, between english and french teachers. I have far more faith in the french primary system than at college or lycee.

Ideally, I'd like my daughter to sample both, but as she's only 5 weeks old perhaps I'm getting a little ahead of myself. I know that my wife already has concerns about her having a teacher as a father!!

[Jeremy]

Back to the original point?

We have 5 boys all now in the French system.They have struggled at times and will i am sure, but surely the point is to try and give them the best we can in whatever language.We have found that the private schools seem to be a LOT less bigotted than the state schools, and the kids more willing to accept foreign children among them.The small local schools can be good too, but again depends on the other kids and what their parents beliefs are, or aren't!

We send ours to a very big school in Caen city , about 1500  from maternelle up to college.

there are as a consequence many different kids there in nationality and race which seems to be accepted as OK.

The school is private, which does mean that in national teachers disputes, their teachers dont go on strike.It also seems that the quality of teachers does seem to be a little better too.

Not that I want to put down any teachers , but better paid teachers tend to be happier than those who feel they are hard done by.Happy teachers mean happier children..

I waffle now so will stop.

English for a 3 year old at home in an English speaking house should not be a problem at 3..Maybe later, but depends on the input you can give them..

Food for thought anyway,

May wisdom be yours, Jeremy.

[Mistral]

Not that I want to put down any teachers , but better paid teachers tend to be happier than those who feel they are hard done by.Happy teachers mean happier children..

On average, teachers in French private schools are paid less than those in state schools. Choosing to work in the state system rather than private (or vice versa) is more to do with various things including religion, attachment to a particular region and political convictions than with teaching ability or wages.

[Jeremy]

Dear Mistral,

The French teacher I spoke with at St Jos seemed to believe they were better paid than in the public sector.So it is probably the same in a lot of countries where it does depend on the region, local politics,religous beliefs and so on. Enough now, Bye Jeremy...

[Cjb]

Any good International School will not base their pay on French salaries as their market is an international one and not merely french, therefore, in order to attract good teachers, they need to remain competitive within an international market.

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

It`s nice to know that most folks when they come over to france prefer to put their kids in a local french school and integrate them with local kids and not stick them in some over priced international "school".When one comes to live in france it is a good idea to join in the french way ie sending ones kids to a french school,hardly social integration is it.

[Cjb]

What exactly do you know about International Schools? A third of my class are french, nearly every child is at least bilingual and as to whether they're well integrated into french society, that is very much dependent on their parents and their homelife. As my wife is French and my daughter is half french and born in France, I can't see that sending my daughter to an International School (if and when we decide to) will present her with any problems.

Being bilingual, she should have no problems integrating into either system. The french parents that have made a considerable financial sacrifice to put their children through the International system, tell me that they have done so due to a lack of confidence within the french education system at College and Lycée level and because they want their children to be well equipped for life in a world that operates on an increasingly international basis. Their qualifications will be recognised worldwide (they study for the International Bac) and this includes France.

Perhaps sending your children to a french school makes you feel particularly french, then again, my wife's family feel very strongly that an International education would be by far the best bet! Then again what do they know??

Many french friends of ours with the BAC +5 or 6 wish that they'd followed a similar route, as they're unable to find work that befits their academic achievments.

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Cjd,glad to see that my thoughts are right ,you are teaching the privileged kids and are happy to do so at the expense of the native french working class,other wise why would anyone pay the fee,s demanded by such schools to try and get "one up"on the plebs who make up the most of the populous.What may one ask are the academic achievements of international schools against normal french state schools,would one be right in saying they are greater than the state schools,what could be the factor?money maybe.

[Cjb]

I firstly tried working within the french system, however, despite an EU ruling to the contrary, an English teaching qualification is not recognised in France, which would have meant two years of retraining just to start at the bottom of the salary scale. With a daughter on the way this was never an option.

As for teaching the privilleged, I spent the first 5 years of my teaching career in North London and it certainly wasn't the leafy suburbs.

Yes, results at my school are extremely good, which is all the more impressive when you take into account the number of children that have English as a second language. The International Bac requires every student to also pass an exam in their first language as well as french. Therfore, for a significant number of students, gaining an International Bac is evidence of them being trilingual.

I fail to see how me teaching in an International School is to the detriment of the French working classes. As I've previously mentioned, it would have meant retraining and at the end of all that, within the french system you can then be posted anywhere within the country. Not an ideal situation for someone with a young child.

What do you make of french parents sending their children to International Schools? Are their children less french than your good self as a result of this?

Anyway, what's wrong with parents wanting the best for their children? Many of these parents pay the highest rate of tax, which goes to supporting the education system, so why shouldn't they have the choice?

If you're suggesting that results are merely due to wealth and not the quality of teaching, I think you're sadly misguided. Many of the parents are successful and shrewd business people who don't just throw their money about without firstly ensuring that they're getting value for money.

This brings me to one final point. Unless I'm mistaken, wasn't it you, the bastion of the poor and needy, who was critical of providing charitable support for the victims of the Tsunami in S.E Asia? Double standards, me thinks!!

[Russethouse]

I was at National Chilbirth Trust classes with a woman who thought that parenthood was the lowest common demoninator! What I think is the common demonitator is the desire to do the very best possible for our children.....

[Later]

Outcast

I agree with Russethouse and I think Cjb's input is really illuminating.  Let me give you an example of why people send their children to private schools.  Where we live in England the local primary school, where my son would go, has 25 children and one teacher.  My son goes to a private school which we really can't afford, but it is so wonderful for our son that we are prepared to make the sacrifices.  He is one of ten children in his class.  There is a highly motivated teacher and a teacher's assistant.  He is very happy where he is and highly stimulated.

The downside is that it puts a lot of pressure on us to stump up the fees.  One of the reasons for us considering moving to France is the notion of a good state school system.  That is, it would take away the pressure of school fees and that, combined with a low or no mortgage, would mean that we could "downsize" and still enjoy a good quality of life.

The more I learn about the French school system, the more inclined I am to think that my children would be better off at a good international school in their later years.  So (a rhetoric question) what effect would this have on our downsizing goal - especially given France's huge taxes and cotisations?