How unhappy is normal?

[SaligoBay]

Saturday night, and son is already in floods of tears about going back to school on Monday, sobbing, saying he doesn't deserve to be 3rd from top of the class, please can he come home for lunch because it's too soul-destroying eating on his own every day, fed up spending his time with people who don't like him etc etc etc

I know that French people would say "il faut qu'il s'habitue", but he's been s'habituing since September, and it really doesn't seem to be getting any better.  My heart is in my mouth every day when he's due home, hoping fervently that there have been no dramas.  

So, for those of you with older children..... is this level of distress about school normal?  

He's 10, he's in 6ième, teachers have nothing but praise for him, he's bright, he's sociable.   What do you do with a child who is really so unhappy about going to school?  It breaks my heart that his childhood years are passing in this way, but I can't see a way out.

Please help!    

 

 

 

[Patf]

Sorry to hear about your son's unhappiness. Do his teachers say that he's unhappy in school? My children are all adult now so can't comment firsthand, except to say that one of my sons had a very unhappy phase and we eventually found out he was being bullied. I have two friends here whose sons were very unhappy at school and eventually changed schools and did better. I'm sure others will come up with something. Pat.

[Deby]

Hello,

Oh dear, I shed a tear! Can't offer you any experienced advice as am not there yet!  Just give him lots of cuddles and tell him he is fantastic, he will be successful and is not a failure.  I am sure you have done this already.  Can his daddy talk to him, you know that male specialness or another male which is respected by him, that might help, he might tell a close 3rd party something.  The task might simply be he doesnt know himself but if someone simply talks to him, his unhappiness may unfold.

I have no real solutions as you only know what is best for your son and go with your gut feel.

Best

Deby.

[Ormx]

Poor thing! Mine are too young too to offer any advice, but I feel for him.

I'm sure the move from primary to college must be very hard. Do you know any of the other parents to ask them how their kids are coping?

[Janey]

SB, did he not move up to College with his friends from ecole? If he did , are they not in his class? That must be very hard for you to know that he is so unhappy. What about  having a word with his teacher, finding out if he could possibly move class to be with someone he at least likes and knows and vice versa. Maybe he,s had an argument with a friend and can,t tell you about it, these things get out of hand sometimes.

Janey

[SaligoBay]

No, he's got no friends in his class from his old school, none at all.  It's because he's doing German, and the 12 German students were put together.  The 180 English students were spread among all 8 classes.   The timetables are completely different, so he can't change class unless he drops German and does English.

He started collège all excited and enthusiastic, then he got bullied by a couple of lads in his class for most of the first term.  That's been sorted out, but he feels the damage is done, because the sorting out necessarily involved teachers, including the principale, and some other children didn't like that.

His French teacher thinks it's because other boys don't know how to deal with him - he's a year younger, he's English, yet he's very near the top of the class.   They call him an intello, which, as we all know from our UK experience, is not a good thing to be at school. 

He's started doing a martial art, which is giving him a bit of confidence., but the problem remains, partly with the college's prison-like structure.   For example, they go into the canteen in class (his class is the 6th of 8), in alphabetical order (and he's near the end of the alphabet), so by the time he's eaten (alone!) his friends from other classes have all finished and gone.

I feel so sad for him, to be so tired and disillusioned at this stage of his life. 

6 months of collège, and not one new friend.  Or maybe that's the nature of French collège?

Thank you for your replies.   I won't talk about it any more just now, because 9am is too early to start blubbing!

 

[Battypuss]

My daughter is 11 and also in 6ième. She was just the same as your son; tears in the morning, terrible behaviour at home (she's normally very good)...and then money started going missing. Eventually, she told me she was being bullied and victimised because a)she was English b)she didn't have the right trainers c)they figured she's be too scared to do anything.

Well, they were certainly wrong about number three! I wrote to the school in no uncertain terms, saying either THEY sorted it all out or I would. They didn't. I went to the school, met with the headmaster, form master, uncle Tom Cobbley and all and eventually lost my temper. This, I hasten to add, was a very Catholic and expensive school...

I hauled her out overnight. This is apparently impossible, I can assure you it is not! She goes now to the local public College and is as happy as a sandboy. Less work, kids better, stays for lunch...a different child, or rather the one I'm used to.

Being 10, your son might also be starting puberty, which can strike boys every bit as hard as girls (and boy, do I know about girls!!!).

I'm not saying changing schools is the answer. But it worked for Polly. Perhaps his happiness is more important than German though; he can always try again in 4ième...

[Cjb]

This sounds just like mon beau frère. He's 16 now and went through pretty much the same problem. I'd like to say everything is better now, but sadly it isn't. He was put forward a year, despite the fact that emotionally he wasn't ready for it. He was also known as "intello" by his peers. The end result was that he ended up having to retake premiere.

If teachers were prepared to properly differentiate work, there'd be no need to put any child forward a year. Somebody who should have been free to revel in their own academic success and grow into a young man with a love of learning has been completely turned-off the whole system and can't wait to finish Lycée.

In my experience as a teacher, those parents that really push to get what they want are able to get things changed. Of course there are teachers that will react negatively to such pressure, but if this happens, it's time to go straight to the principale or even the rectorat. Parent power is far more prevalent in the UK, but if something isn't done, he'll learn to associate learning with this whole painful experience. Best of luck.

Chris

Have you considered a change of school? I'd have thought there'd be plenty of schools with International sections where you're living.

[leray]

Hi Saligo

Oh I do sympathise, we got back yesterday after 2 weeks in UK and my daughter is dreading tomorrow, in 1er.  She has also changed her mind about going on the school trip to Italy, terrified of being trapped for a week with people who dont like her.

But she wasnt very happy at primary in UK.

Does this mean she was the one the problem?

No, I dont think so, outside school we very involved in ice skating and the rink, she was very popular and got on with everybody adults and children. But at school there was one girl with whom she used to clash and I said to her the other day when I picked her up from lycee when it was jabber this jabber that and I said this is going back to primary schoool days. My one regret in UK was that I didnt change schools for her there, but I was afraid she would not get my choice of secondary if I moved her, even though her 2 sisters were already at the girls school. Funnily enough her primary school was a church school.

So to all those of you dreading tomorrow morning, when Im thinking of my daughter and how her day is going I shall be thinking of you and yours and hoping you all have a Bon Lundi et Bonne semaine!! Im sure there are times when we must all wonder what are we doing.

elaine

 

[Mistral]

SB, put a word in his carnet saying you want to see his prof principal. Yes, they do have to get used to 6eme. It's not the same as primary. But by now he should have started finding friends and finding his place in the class. It might be an idea to write a little letter (in an envelope) telling the PP that you want  to discuss how he is settling in, so that the PP doesn't worry that you are coming in to criticise (French teachers go on the defensive very quickly) but to ask for his/her insights on how things are going in school. This also lets him check with the other class teachers before he sees you.

We try to make sure that no child is the only one from his primary school when we make the 6emes so that they don't feel so lonely in the first term, but by this time, the "I come from X school" groups are breaking up or taking in new members.

Does he have friends from his old school who are in collège with him? Even if they aren't in the same class, they should be able to see each other at break. He comes back on the bus, doesn't he? Who does he sit with there? I understand why he can't move classes. The language thing would be too complicated.

I've got pupils who have gone through the 'intello' problem. they usually end up by finding like minded friends and settling although it can take longer for them.

Are they any lunchtime clubs? These can help. He sees other pupils, under adult control and it can help him to feel he belongs.

Is he a bit of a perfectionist? I ask because the conseil de classe are coming up and I know some kids gets really panicked in the coupld of weeks beforehand, especially those with good grades. You could ask the PP to mention his worries during the CdC. He can always ask that the pupils delegués leave the room while he mentions it, but this isn't alway a good idea. It makes the pupils stand out.

 

[Battypuss]

Where are the kids he was in Primaire with? Do they live nearby? Can you invite them round or speak to their parents?

Are you sure he isn't under too much presure to do well, whether inadvertantly from you, or from the teachers?

Daughter three, previously at the same school, the private gaff, was reasonably happy for 5 years, then met a teacher who expected her to be the same as Polly. She isn't, in fact could not be more different. Teacher ridiculed her, said she would never pass the year...subtle and incredibly unpleasant. Guess what, I hauled HER out too (even more frowned upon than doing so in College and requiring permission from the Mayor to attend a different school from the one next door, not a good one). I wouldn't say she's over the moon about it (or school in general) but she passed the year with flying colours...

[Jo53]

SB, so sorry that you and your son are going through this. No concrete advice to offer, but seems like your son is having a crisis of self-confidence, and that's an understandable response to the situation: the transition to college is hard anyway, going from being big fish in small pool to tiny fish in huge pool full of bigger, more mature (physically at least) children/teens. He probably feels this especially keenly being only 10. Plus the thing of being 'different' because of his nationality, plus being more intelligent than most of the others. One can understand how this might simply be all too much at the moment.

Don't want to sound glib, but you need to keep faith that this difficult time will pass. Things may well look much more positive this time next year; maybe try and focus on that hope rather than dreading a downward spiral - that is NOT inevitable. In all probability there are one or two likeminded types in his class who he hasn't yet connected with. He and they will probably become the 'interesting' set one day (as opposed to the lunkhead 'popular' types). Keep talking to your son and letting him know you understand his fears; talk frankly about why it's hard for him at the moment, and show confidence that things will improve as he gets older. Also try and do lots of fun/different things outside of school. I'm sure you do these things anyway. This period will be a test of strength for the family, but do believe that you have the resources to get through it and to shape your son into a self-confident individual.

[SaligoBay]

Thank you for listening, everyone.   He's just gone back this morning with his broken arm, so we'll see how the morning goes.    If nothing else, the novelty of a new plaster cast in the class should get him through till lunchtime!

Battypuss, his friends from primaire are still in primaire.  It was a mixed class, CE1 and CE2, he was in CE2, but because of the age difference, he fitted in better socially with the CE1s.   He's had a lot to cope with in the last couple of years, and I'd just like him to be able to have a nice, normal time for a while. 

I was looking at the playground this morning when I took him in.  800 little darlings is a lot!!!    And they're so static, no games allowed at breaktime, it does look pretty dull. 

I don't really know what I'm talking about here, I feel a bit confused......

 

[Lizzie15]

Hi,my children have all left school and I don't know a lot about the French system but I am a teacher in UK. I think you are right to worry. Mistral's advice sounds spot- on to me,all the other replies seem really understanding too. I would consider changing schools ( maybe after the summer break) if things do not improve in the next couple of months.

 

 

[Croisic]

You love your child, don't do this to him. Educate him at home. Would you do this to an adult, encourage them to go every day to a workplace that fills them with dread? Of course not. There is nothing magical about school, even French school!

Give your child all the love and respect that they deserve, and admire them for being a little different, being individual and not one of those sheep who accept it all.

He will be an achiever in one way or another. A sensitive and thoughtful male is sadly hard to find in this world. You are blessed to have one. Encourage him, help him to fulfil all his ambitions. So those ambitions don't include attending school,there is a world of knowledge and fun out there. You can explore it together. Step outside of the box. Your son has. Be proud of him.

[Tourangelle]

There has been a recent thread on home education in France called "education otherwise"

[Lilly]

I have a 10 year old son soon to be 11 and a 14 year old at the lycee, it appears a little more the other way round for my two but I know exactly how you feel. If your little boy is allowed home for lunch how about inviting a friend also. Have a couple of weeks where you invite one or two for the afternoon perhaps on a Wednesday or weekends, bribery is the best policy when it comes to breaking ice with kids, if your little boy can't think of someone ask his teacher as if he's any thing like mine was he won't want to decide and or think there is no one. My personal opinion in England would have been let them sort it out by themselves, but here is too difficult and they need a hand. My son was 9 3/4 when he came here, his reading is just starting to be at the same age group as his class mates his writing is beautiful and he chatters away without an accent so I am told, belive me when I say it will come right, he will be fine you however will have a few more tears yet, but smiles do follow. Best wishes.

[SaligoBay]

Thank you again to everyone who's replied, including the PMs (I feel like I've just won an Oscar!).

To cut his school history short, this is his 4th school in 5 years.  He did most of Reception Year in the UK, loved every minute of it, and arrived in France happy and motivated and able to read and write and count.  He went to an international bilingual school, and it was them who put him up a class, because his age-group here were just beginning to do that stuff.  Looking back now, they should have been able to cope with it, but c'est la vie.

Personal reasons led him to change to the local école primaire in the September of his 8th birthday.   The teacher was young and knew his situation, but was the kind who ripped pages out of cahiers etc if work wasn't to her satisfaction, and boy could she yell!     He started there in the September, and by January she was suggesting we find another school for him.    That kind of scared him!   Finally in CM2 he got an excellent teacher and he was happy.

Then - collège!   His classmates will be turning 12 this year, and he's still 10 till September, it's a big difference at that age!

Every single one of his teachers speaks very highly of him, no worries about his behaviour or attitude or anything.   I think it must just be the age thing, he's still "little" inside compare to many of his classmates.   I hope that's it!

I'm reluctant to embark on home education, partly because of the social side of things, and partly because his French would undoubtedly suffer, and I fear that he'd be left not fitting in anywhere.

Anyone still awake out there?     I'm off to do something in the vineyards now.

  

[Lizzie15]

Yes, still awake. Your post sounds much more optimistic today, are things a bit better?  I think home education would be a much bigger kettle of poisson than it would in UK, I think you are right in moving cautiously.  Good luck with the grape snipping- or whatever!

 

[TiffanyS<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><U>hometown.aol.co.uktiffanystacpooleanimalmatters.html<U><FONT><P>]

[quote]Thank you again to everyone who's replied, including the PMs (I feel like I've just won an Oscar!). To cut his school history short, this is his 4th school in 5 years. He did most of Reception Year ...[/quote]

I'm so sorry to hear about your son, but I'm reading your posts with dread because here I am, on a Thursday with my daughter upstairs in her bedroom because she had a stress fit this morning at departure time and I felt it was a cry for help somehow.

My daughter is 8, 9 in Sept and like your son, 3rd best in her small combined class (CM2/CM1) where most of her age group have redoubled and are redoing CM1. So, as with your son, she is in a group where there are children already almost ten years old and she doesn't find the work challenging enough.

In fact despite being brave since GS (her first year was a nightmare) she hates going to school and seems depressed all the time about it. She find's it boring, the teacher is disinterested, they don't do enough sport and, in general the day is tedious. We, too, had minor bullying problems with an older girl, but the real difficulty in her school is that the groups are so small there aren't other friends to be made. You're either in the gang or you're not. An only child, she's found the compromises necessary difficult, but I'm not aware of any specific anti-English feeling from the other kids. She just doesn't have any special friends.

I'm dreading the move up to College and am now wondering, having read all the posts here about your and other's experiences, whether I should rethink the direction her schooling is taking.

I'm not suggesting it's any better at all in private, international or UK schools.... but like you, my heart tells me that I am doing a bad thing to my child. Perhaps there is a point where we have to think like mothers, follow our instincts and be prepared to break the mold with our kids as we have done with our lifestyles... sometimes I wonder why it is I'm taking the easy route with someone's whole future?

 Like you, I can't bear the feeling that every time I take her to school, I am committing her to a day I would not put myself through by choice.... why do we do that to our kids? I actually do believe the problems are fewer here than in UK primary schools, but do we ever solve the problem that school is an institution that is frequently detrimental to children's emotional development?

I'm already sure that she should change to a different Primaire and finds a teacher with more enthusiasm (a marvellous example of this she had as a relief teacher for almost all of CM1 so she knows the difference!) but it sounds to me as though the French system may not necessarily suit the needs of a bright but anxious child as I had originally hoped....

[Patf]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned two friends whose children had changed schools and it seemed to improve things.It seems to be done more often here than in UK. But objectively it's better for the child to stick it out unless they are really disturbed. When things change for the better, as they usually do, the child will have that extra bit of self confidence which comes from working through problems. And remember that in pre-adolescent children their feelings and attitudes can change quickly, more quickly than with adults. Pat.

[missmonkey]

Well I can re-assure you that this behaviour isn't unique to French schools.  We have had very similar experiences here in Ireland. My son from 11 to 13 was called names, challenged into fights, and even spit on daily but a group of kids here in his school in Ireland.  The school would do nothing as these kids were members of the "travelling community" and feared retribution if they got involved. Finally....to my great disapproval... my son who is by no means violent, finally stood up for himself and got into a fight with the kid who was leading the harassment.  they backed off but didn't leave him alone by any means.  We are leaving for france end of june and it is only within the past month that my son (who is now 14) had made friends.  My daughter still struggles, but girls are far more mean than boys, she regularily gets called names here and cries regularily about going to school.  so I'd say no matter where you are on this planet , your son will experience some degree of this, kids are mean, but I think you are doing the right thing, get him involved in as many extra curricular activites as possible and make is off school time as fulfilling as possible, this will help give him the confidence to let this stuff roll off his back a bit better, which will hopefully lead to his being able to establish frienships.

take care MM 

[Cascais]

'Kids are mean'

Yes sometimes they can be, so can older people.

I don't go along with this 'kids can be mean'. It's too easy, puts the responsibility anywhere but at home.

If you are taught respect and love for fellow humans from day one, you don't behave that way, no matter what your age.  What kind of person laughs at or makes fun of another?

I wonder where the people who feel it's normal to be 'cruel up to a point' draw the line? 

 

[Tresco]

If you are taught respect and love for fellow humans from day one, you don't behave that way, no matter what your age. 

If only life was this simple, but it isn't. Child bullies come from all backgrounds, and surely even as adults we are all capable of the very best, and very worst of behaviours?.

I saw in another thread that Saligobay was on the verge of taking one of her sons friends for a short trip to Spain. If that's a school friend, that could be an indication that things are looking up for him.

[Teamedup]

If you are taught respect and love for fellow humans from day one, you don't behave that way, no matter what your age.  What kind of person laughs at or makes fun of another?

 

Would it were that simple. Some people are just not like that. Their nature is not like that. The good thing is that some kids who are brought up in bad households, actually turn out to be good and decent human beings.