Selling Using a Notaire

[Tonyb]

Has anyone done this? Was it a good way to sell?

As I might be selling next year I am keen to maximise my profits. Although technically the buyer pays the agent's fee, if a buyer is willing to stump up 200,000 euros for a house (which would include ten percent agent's fee) I'd rather as much as possible ended up in my coffers!

Agents must be delighted with this upswing in property prices! Their cut from selling a house at 200,000 euros would be 20,000 euros, amazing.

I believe that Notaire's fees are much lower than agents fees, but apart from using websites how do Notaire's market properties, and how do they arrange viewings?

I presume that the owner has to show prospective buyers round.

Perhaps a good strategy would be to use a Notaire and a private sellers' website.

Thanks in advance.

[Shane]

We have just sold our house here in the Dordogne. We had 3 immobiliers in for a valuation and we had a figure in our head also. We went with the highest valuation which was above our expectations, and then placed the house for sale with 7 immobiliers. We rang our Notaire who sells houses and she said yes she would take it on her books but advised us that we would probably sell quicker with an english speaking agent who had a good web site. And lo and behold, its that time of year! we sold within 3 days and the house had not even made it to the internet! We got more than our expectations but less than the valuation so we were well happy.

We found that some agents adjusted their commission to try and secure us a sale, which was interesting.

So yes go with a Notaire but don't worry about going with agents too, and as many as possible in your area to get maximum coverage, and check out their web sites, they need to be easy to use and come up early on search engines.

Our Notaire does accompanied viewings also, so don't worry about having to show people round.

So good luck.

Also sent you a private e mail.

Carol

www.dordogne-on-line.info

[Ron Avery]

If agents are charging !0% fees for just selling, no legal work, then that is daylight robbery, I think you will find French agents who do not have to pay English Agencies a cut, charge between 5 and 8%. The ball park 10% buyer's fee figure usually quoted includes Notaire's fees and taxes.  Even if you do not use a immobilier or Notaire acting as an Immobilier to sell your house, your buyer will only save on the agents fees and may have to pay more to the Notaire for doing the work the Immobilier usually does.

[elaynem]

Slightly misleading reply really. Even french agents that are connected to english ones, usually split the commission with that english one and do not add in any extra. Anything between 4 and 10% is the norm for french agents - most agents have a sliding scale of fees which you will find either in their window or on the wall of their office. A notaire usually charges 3% for a sale - on top of his own legal fees of course.

Yes agents fees are quite high in France but it is the same all over France. Just because an agent has connections to an english agency does not mean he is charging extra. Also french agencies that have english commercial agents working for them do not tend to charge any more either - all of it is just split between the various parties.

It only appears to be "daylight robbery" because you might be used to the UK way of doing business - however when in Rome ............

[Tonyb]

Yes, I too felt that Ron's reply was a bit off the mark.

French agents can and do charge around 10%. As you say, this is on a sliding scale but is fixed, whether or not they are splitting the fee with third parties. They don't do legal work. That is done by the Notaire who charges around 7-10% of the price of the property (in addition to the sale price) in order to cover his fees and stamp duty.

I was recently quoted agent's fees in the ballpark of 10% for a house valued at around 200,000 euro, so it made me think of selling privately. I realise that I cannot pocket the whole of what the agent would have earned, but I hope to be able to maybe split the difference, so that the buyer saves some money and I gain more revenue for myself.

[Teamedup]

We may all have to use notaires for the actual sale, but none of us are under any obligation to use an estate agent or the selling services of a notaire in France. The financial advantage of doing it one's self is often split between both parties.

And some estate agents will reduce their fees if a large sum is involved in order to keep the sale.

[Ron Avery]

[quote]Slightly misleading reply really. Even french agents that are connected to english ones, usually split the commission with that english one and do not add in any extra. Anything between 4 and 10% is t...[/quote]

"Even french agents that are connected to english ones, usually split the commission with that english one and do not add in any extra."

What I said or meant, was that French Agents who work on their own charge between 5 and 8%, I have little knowledge of those who work with UK based Agencies so I did not venture an estimate of their fee ranges

I'd be interested to know how you know that your statement about usually splitting the Commission is true?  I know this is not the UK but in the UK, Agents charge one fee for sole agency and  a higher % fee for split or multi- gency, are you saying that all French Agents have a single % figure whether or not the property is sole or multiple agency?  My only experience of a UK based agent was when we looked at a house in the Creuse, a Dutch Agent we looked at it through would have charged 5% commission and drafted the compris, I don't know why you think that they don't do any of the legal work,, A French agent with the same property and the English Agency connection was charging 8% for selling it, so who got the 3% difference?

[Shane]

It is a fact that commissions vary, when we had our house valued and then subsequently placed with various immobiliers the price varied from 186000 to 188000 euro. The price to us would have been the same but obviously the commissions charged varied from one immobilier to another.

As far as sharing commission goes, this does happen. Our friend who is an immobilier charges 8% commission. When they sell a house as a result of the uk based agency they work with sending the client they have to pay them 2% out of their 8%, it is not added on by the uk agency to make the fee 10%, if you follow my drift.

They also sometimes reduce their fees to aid a sale on a highly priced house for example.

Its swings and roundabouts I think but at the end of the day they sell houses and its not an easy job and the costs involved in running such a business are very high considering the distances they have to travel (ie petrol/diesel), the hours of paper work, long long days, and people not turning up or whatever. Not a job I would want.

[LesLauriers]

Dordognecarol: with regard to your first post, you can lead a horse to water………….

With regard to Immo’s fees, on a house at €200k, locally the fee would be 16000€, Tva on this is 2610€

If one of the major English agents is involved or another French agent they will take up to 6695€

The agency will take 3347€ of which 50% + will go in charges before advertising, rent, rates, electricity, secretarial services etc.

The selling agent, the individual who took you around all of the houses you saw, will take up to 836€ of which they will pay 385€ in cotisations and say 90€ in tax leaving 362€ less any fuel purchased and other expenses. The same amount would go to the person who took the property on.

Selling a house in the UK where an agent can take you to 6 different houses in your price range within the same town is totally different to selling a house in France. In Carol’s case she took the opportunity to market her house to the widest possible customer base and profited from it, many houses in France remain on the market for a number of years and for an agent this can mean a multitude of visits before a sale is made. As a seller you do everything you can to sell your house within your time frame and at the most advantageous price, unless of course……….

[Fowlers19]

All though this is not directly related to the above topic it is very relevent to those that may be buying and reading this topic.

I think you will find that some English agents charge vastly inflated prices compared to a local agent. We looked at a property in Vergt for sale locally @ 212000 euros only to find on return that a very large UK agency had it for sale @ 277000 euros. Yes this was inclusive of agents and notaires fees but 212000 did include agents fees. As notaires fees are about 71/2% there is obviously a big mark up. This gave us the extra boost to return in February and go direct to the agent. Buyer beware!

Martin Fowler.  

[Shane]

Absolutely agree with Les Lauriers.